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Thema: Wireless PAB Extension

  1. #1
    Registriert seit
    03.12.2009
    Beiträge
    185

    Standard Wireless PAB Extension

    Is anyone interested in being able to make connections of their PAB devices over a Wireless link?

    I have a prototype that is working of a wireless extender that allows me to connect a PowerBar 6D PAB and an Expansion Box that are 20m away from the rest of my PAB network/P3Ex controller.
    So far I have tested it in normal usage, performed a firmware upgrade over it to the PowerBar 6D PAB and it appears to work in a stable manner.

    The first extender connects to my P3Ex with a PAB cable and then wirelessly to the second extender which is connected to the PowerBar 6D PAB with a PAB cable.
    The wireless connection can operate on multiple channels so it should be possible to have multiple wireless connections, though I have not tested this as I only have a single link at the moment.
    Each connection is a replacement for a cable, so you still need to attach to PAB devices at each end.

    If people are interested in such a thing, I would be willing to put some more effort in, make it more of an item rather than just a hacked together piece of electronics modules.
    Perhaps provide a DIY kit or similar to allow you to make your own.

    Note: I am not looking to sell or provide this as a product. More I am just looking to get an idea if people are interested and if so Ill probably post up instructions etc.
    Stay up to date with my efforts at Blue Tang Breeding here http://facebook.com/RegalTangBreeding and Mccullochi Clownfish Breeding here https://www.facebook.com/MccullochiClownfishBreeding

  2. #2
    Registriert seit
    17.11.2012
    Ort
    Louisiana
    Beiträge
    191

    Standard

    Interesting, would love to know more.
    Perry
    A screen shot is worth a thousand words...

    Profilux 3.1N eX, 3 PAB 6D, Slave Doser, PLM-ADIN, Vortech Controller, PLM-PWC, Leak detector, 2 LX 6100HV Mitras
    Controlling a 150 DSA Peninsula mixed reef.

  3. #3
    Registriert seit
    27.05.2015
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    This is an interesting concept indeed! Thank you for sharing your findings with us.

  4. #4
    Registriert seit
    21.06.2011
    Ort
    South Florida
    Beiträge
    803

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    Count me in


    Always at sea;

    Dr. Antonio Longo

  5. #5
    Registriert seit
    26.02.2015
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    19

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    Sounds very interesting.

    Steve

  6. #6
    Registriert seit
    18.02.2009
    Ort
    Kaiserslautern
    Beiträge
    7.637

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    I am not sure if there might be timing/latency problems or if it is possible that the data packets are mixed during transmission because I dont know the details of the used technology

    but it sounds very interesting

    do you mind to share some details?
    No support or warranty issues over PM! Please send PMs to the moderators only if you have general problems with using the forum! Thanks for helping us to keep the support efficient.
    Kein Support oder Reklamationsabwicklung über PM! Bitte senden Sie an die Moderatoren nur PMs bei allgemeinen Problemen mit der Verwendung des Forums! Danke dass Sie uns dabei helfen, den Support effektiv zu gestalten.

  7. #7
    Registriert seit
    03.12.2009
    Beiträge
    185

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    I thought I would post a quick update on this.

    Im in the middle of a redesign on the device at the moment and am waiting for some parts to arrive (probably between christmas and new years now).
    I have been missing some of the data on the PAB bus that has not affected the operation of the powerbar.
    However when I started utilising features of the expansion box this showed up.
    As I have not been decoding the details on the bus, I'm not sure if this was causing retransmits, errors etc

    My V2 approach is to actually interact more directly with the PAB bus.
    To that end Ill utilise MCP2551 and MCP2515 to decode the data, transfer that to the micro and then to the wireless.

    This will provide me with a 2Mb/s full duplex connection between the micros and should allow for sufficient bandwidth to allow the extension of the bus.
    In terms of data packet order, thats something I need to test, but even with my basic V1 design, didn't seem to be an issue.
    Ill make sure I implement some sort of handling to ensure that packets are delivered in order across the wireless.

    thanks for the tip.

    regards

    Darren
    Stay up to date with my efforts at Blue Tang Breeding here http://facebook.com/RegalTangBreeding and Mccullochi Clownfish Breeding here https://www.facebook.com/MccullochiClownfishBreeding

  8. #8
    Registriert seit
    21.06.2011
    Ort
    South Florida
    Beiträge
    803

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    Zitat Zitat von CaptCrash Beitrag anzeigen
    I thought I would post a quick update on this.

    Im in the middle of a redesign on the device at the moment and am waiting for some parts to arrive (probably between christmas and new years now).
    I have been missing some of the data on the PAB bus that has not affected the operation of the powerbar.
    However when I started utilising features of the expansion box this showed up.
    As I have not been decoding the details on the bus, I'm not sure if this was causing retransmits, errors etc

    My V2 approach is to actually interact more directly with the PAB bus.
    To that end Ill utilise MCP2551 and MCP2515 to decode the data, transfer that to the micro and then to the wireless.

    This will provide me with a 2Mb/s full duplex connection between the micros and should allow for sufficient bandwidth to allow the extension of the bus.
    In terms of data packet order, thats something I need to test, but even with my basic V1 design, didn't seem to be an issue.
    Ill make sure I implement some sort of handling to ensure that packets are delivered in order across the wireless.

    thanks for the tip.

    regards

    Darren

    Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the next one.


    Always at sea;

    Dr. Antonio Longo

  9. #9
    Registriert seit
    03.12.2009
    Beiträge
    185

    Standard V2 Progress

    All of the new parts have now arrived and have been hacked together.

    My setup at the moment is as follows



    Unit 1 (top mess of stuff)
    PAB Bus -> RJ45 Breakout board -> CAN Bus break out board -> Arduino Nanno -> RF24 wireless module.

    Unit 2 (bottom mess of stuff)
    RF24 wireless module -> Arduino Nanno -> LCD

    With this new setup I have been able to achieve very reliable communications. The wireless link is 2Mb/s, the PAB bus is 1Mb/s.

    I have built two test systems, in both cases the PAB data is transferred from the receiving unit (unit 1) via wireless to the display unit (unit 2).
    Even without much optimisation, this looks to be substantially better than my original attempt. With lots of debug code and displaying details on both the LCD and serial console, I was able to transfer over 1.4 million PAB events with a loss of 3.
    This test displayed the time and date on unit 2, by transferring all PAB data, from Unit 1 to Unit 2. Unit 2 then filtered all of the data for just the time events and displayed the time and date on the LCD.

    http://vid499.photobucket.com/albums...psnf7houbr.mp4
    The video shows the display of the date/time on unit 1, later this display was moved to unit 2.

    In my second test, I have optimised the code to do nothing other than transfer data between the two units.
    With this test I am again transferring each of the PAB events from Unit 1 to Unit 2. Unit 1 is keeping track of how many events are being sent and adding this count to the time events as an addition to the PAB data.
    Unit 2 receives all of the PAB events and counts them.
    Unit 2 then displays the counts from Unit 1 and Unit 2 on the LCD and calculates the missed number of packets. At this point this test has been going for about an hour and has not missed a single event.


    S = Sent packets
    R = Received packets
    0 = count of missed packets

    My plan is to let this run over night and see how many packets are missed.

    At this stage, no optimisation has been done for the radio communications, each PAB event is sent to the other side and an acknowledgement is returned from the recipient radio module.
    Stay up to date with my efforts at Blue Tang Breeding here http://facebook.com/RegalTangBreeding and Mccullochi Clownfish Breeding here https://www.facebook.com/MccullochiClownfishBreeding

  10. #10
    Registriert seit
    03.12.2009
    Beiträge
    185

    Standard

    At this stage, this looks very promising.
    I still have a couple of more tests to perform and some optimisation on the data format.

    Optimisations that may deliver better performance include
    1. Sending multiple PAB frames in a single radio transfer
    2. Larger or Smaller radio packets
    3. Radio power tuning for shorter distances
    4. Radio channel selection
    5. Code optimisation (or migration to native AVR rather than Arduino)
    6. Other unthought of issues

    Ill post up as I progress
    Stay up to date with my efforts at Blue Tang Breeding here http://facebook.com/RegalTangBreeding and Mccullochi Clownfish Breeding here https://www.facebook.com/MccullochiClownfishBreeding

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