ATO with 2.1 Doser

I have just set up my ATO using one of the pumps on my slave 2.1 doser with a pump speed of Fast and after calibration set at 36ml per min.

I have followed the video by using the exact same set up with the acrylic rod, an optical sensor for the minimum and the float sensor for the maximum using a splitter cable to connect to the level connections on the Profilux but I am not sure it is working correctly. It is set to Min-Max Control

With the positions, I had set the two sensors at to start with and with a 5-minute maximum on time the water level did not reach the float sensor and alarmed. Even though I have the alarm set to reset error automatically on this occasion whilst I was setting things up I reset it myself so it could run again. I have subsequently tried at 12 and 15 mins and in both cases it has alarmed out without reaching the float sensor. For the last two 12 and 15mins, I had moved the sensors as close as I could together: 1 because of the timeout 2 because I was concerned at the amount of RO water being added at a single dose 433.2 ml and 541.2 ml and 3 whether the doser pump would be able to continuously dose for such a long period.

Since the last dose which was at midnight, I did not turn off the alarm myself but left it because I was under the impression that the alarm would reset itself when the water level dropped below the minimum. Although it now appears as if the water level is below the minimum the alarm as not cleared and no further dosing as happened. This is now over 14.5 hours after the last top-up so I have reset manually and the doser immediately started to top up.

I am not sure what the problem is but it quite clearly doesn't seem to be working as I would expect.

I have attached a photo of the sensors as now positioned(Sorry the photo needs turning through 90 degrees to the left to show the correct orientation and a series of screenshots of the setup and the top-ups that have occurred.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks

UPDATE UPDATE

After clearing the alarm like I said the doser started immediately and alarmed out again after the 15 minutes having dosed 541.2 ml exactly as per the last dose. Although it is difficult to see properly in the sump the water level after that dose seemed to be just touching the bottom of the float sensor but maybe not quite enough to turn the pump off - either that or the float sensor is not working. I have again cleared the alarm manually.


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It sounds like the alarm is happening because the 15 minute limit is not long enough to allow the task to complete. Have you tried upping it to 18 or 20 minutes?

The alarm will automatically reset itself only when the upper sensor detects normal water level. The bottom sensor has no effect on the alarm.

If you go to the "States" tab in the control circuit page, you will be able to see if the probe is reacting or not when you manually toggle the switch up and down.

Yes, hopefully, that is the case. I have increased it to 18 minutes to see if that works.

Not sure which switch you mean in the States tab - can you explain a bit further, please.

So having the sensors so close to each other is OK?

What about having the pump running up to say 20 minutes - is that OK? What is the effect on the serviceability and life of the pump?

I am use to top-ups being more frequent and smaller quantities - with what looks like about half a litres every few hours not going to affect the parameters in the tank particularly the salinity?

Is it not possible to set it to have more frequent smaller quantities?

Many thanks

When you go to the LEVEL settings page, there will be a section called Sensors, press that tab (on the app) or scroll down if using GCC and toggle the float switch multiple times. As you do that, you will see an (X) mark appear and disappear. That will tell you if the sensor is working or not.

20 minute run time is not much more than 15 minutes so the wear difference will not be drastic. Just be sure to clean the heads regularly and don't let them get too dirty because that is when problems may happen. If salinity is a concern because of a smaller system, a 1-sensor ATO function would be more suitable because it will keep a tighter range of control within the physical limits of the sensor.

I have looked at that I can't get anything to toggle except the invert switch which is not relevant. Which am I supposed to be toggling?

This is a screenshot of what it is showing the myGHL cloud on my Mac.

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When I changed the time fro 15 mins to 18 mins it has dosed again and also alarmed again which is till ON at the moment.

My system is 300 litres. When you say one sensor presumably you use the optical and not use the float but doesn't this give you less protection in case of a failure on the optical?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mlandscape

I have looked at that I can't get anything to toggle except the invert switch which is not relevant. Which am I supposed to be toggling?

The sensor itself.


My system is 300 litres. When you say one sensor presumably you use the optical and not use the float but doesn't this give you less protection in case of a failure on the optical?

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Not at all. Regardless if you use one or two sensors for this task, you will still have the Max-on time feature which is your failsafe.

Sorry might being a bit slow here but I can't find anything that will toggle.

Here's another screenshot I have it set to Sensor 3 and 4 using a splitter cable. I assume Sensor 2 is the Leak Detection that I set up at the same time with the module plugged into one of the other level ports with two sensors.

Attachment 12500

What am I trying to toggle Reaction Time, Inverted, Stae Direct or Stae Delayed on 3 or 4 ? The only one I can get to toggle is invert .

Put the float sensor in the water for a few seconds and see if the sensor state in the app changes and repeat.

Yes Sensor 3 State Direct and State Delayed changed from - to x and the alarm disappeared

Sensor 4 stayed with just X on both

Ok.
Identify which is sensor #4 and toggle that one as well to see if it reacts. If it does, then that sensor is also working properly.

Sensor 4 is the optical Sensor and that did react from X to -

So both sensors are working properly. The issue is likely due to the max on-time not being set long enough to complete the task.
If the issue continues, please open a ticket.

OK Thanks hopefully it will be OK.

Presumably, if I want to get more frequent smaller doses in less time then I should go to the ATO with one sensor? Wish I had known that would have saved me the cost of the second sensor and the splitter cable !!

Would it better to use the optical one for this?

So the only water level protection on this will be the maximum run time on the pump?

Can you send me a video link for this setup, please?

Correct.

Sensor type comes down to personal preference. Optical will give a tighter range of control over the float, but may be susceptible to bio-film coverage from nearby macro algae if you are running a refugium.

Yes and that is enough to prevent floods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tit...AJRMA7&index=3

OK, thanks - no refugium so not as much of a problem but realise need to keep clean.

I am afraid that the use of this ATO control is proving to be a disaster. There is no point me raising a ticket as the main GHL site is saying that tickets will be dealt with on their return from holiday in 10 days time.

The latest position is that am now away from my tank and the ATO is not working as it should. Whatever maximum run time I set the pump will run for that time and then stop having alarmed out on the time. I have left to see if it resets itself which it is set to do but it never as with myself having to reset it through my GHL. Having gone 26 hrs without it resetting so no top up run!!! I reset it myself and the pump runs and the again alarms out on the time until it is manually reset. I don’t believe this is a run time issue like originally suggested because I have hadn’t set up to 25 mins and it still alarms out. This is a major issue for me being away from the tank and not always ding able to connect to myGHL and that’s another issue. I need a solution to this now not in 10 days time Thanks

Have you sat in front of the device to see the task in-action?
That will confirm whether the issue is still max-on time related or not.

You already confirmed both sensors are working. The only other cause is the max on-time still being too short.

I can’t sit in front of the device when I am not there. I have tried 5, 15, 20 and lastly 25 mins and on each occasion it alarms out. You can’t be saying that I need to run the doser over 25 mins just to top up? At that rate I be replacing dosing heads more often than water. That’s almost 1 litre per dose. Also why am I having to reset it the error manually all the time - 26 hrs without resetting and topping up doesn’t seem right to me !! Does it seem normal and acceptable to you? How many occasions have you come across when a Doser pump is running in excess of 25 mins to carry out a top procedure ?

I can't say whether 25 minutes is enough for your system or not. I don't know your setup or how much water evaporates on a daily basis.

The scenarios for when an alarm will reset itself ultimately depend on what ATO mode you selected. If the max on-time is not set correctly, it will not work correctly. Review your ATO settings. If need be follow along with the video and observe your ATO task in-action when you are able to. That will give you the best idea of what is happening. We've already determined the sensors are not the issue.

It certainly adding far more than normal and in larger quantities which I am not comfortable with and I am concerned that it is possibly affecting parameters.
You know the ATO mode is with two sensors that are located close together and has been set up exactly as the video and I have posted screenshot show this.

You have not commented on my questions about how many other systems you are aware of running this system for in excess of 25 mins. I have concerned here for the pump. I am sure I have read somewhere that they should not be run for in excess of 15 mins at any one time. Please confirm what the effect is of running a pump for in excess of 25 mins. The video whilst does say that the time should be set at a sufficiently long enough time but shows 5 mins which I believe is misleading. How many systems like this have 5 mins as a sufficiently long enough time .

The 5-min displayed in the video is subjective and solely based on the individual's requirements and pump model being used.

There are plenty of setups running their pumps with limits at 25 minutes, some even longer. It all depends on the person's setup and system size. Of course one must also consider the wear this puts on the pump. A D2.1 motor running for 25 minutes will have more wear on it then a Maxi motor due to being much smaller in size. For these pumps we recommend running the pump for up to 15 minutes for maximum motor longevity. Running it longer than that (30 or 45 minutes), will still work, but may not be ideal due to the higher demands of the tank setup. That's where a Maxi motor or dedicated utility pump become a more efficient option.

Thanks for clarifying all that. I would suggest that if there are such limits etc on running 2.1 Doser heads then that should have been made clear in the video and in the appropriate literature etc for the Doser. If I had known that I would be having to run a Doser head for such a length of time then I probably would not have gone down this route of user the 2.1 Doser and may not even have used GHL for ATO especially when the Maxi is not even available at the moment.

Disappointed that I have bought new equipment specifically for ATO use at an approximate cost of £150 and now find out that it is not entirely suitable for what I need. If hadnt seen that video I would never have thought about using the doser.

Now I am back in front of the tank the set up with the two sensors is just not working even having raised the time to 45 minutes it was still alarming out. As you have suggested I will be raising a ticket to try to resolve this issue.

In the meantime, I have set it up using the one optical sensor and now its working and no alarms up to now at least.

I have just one question on this one sensor set up. Although it generally makes one large dose ever few hours either side of that there are many smaller doses thereby bringing the doser on more than necessary. Can you let me know what is causing this and how what I can do to stop it doing this.

Attached is a screenshot showing today's doses. The ones on the left, if I recall correctly, were where I had altered the sensor reaction time to either 5 or 10 seconds to try to stop the problem which obviously didn't and the ones on the right are with it set at the default 1 second but the problem still exists

The sensor is in the return pump chamber with nothing else in there.

Many thanks

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When a pump head is assigned to the ATO task, it will turn ON however many times as necessary to maintain your desired water level. These short ON cycles are much easier on the motor than single prolonged run times. The caps and rollers will also see less wear and tear than a single cycle which requires 15+ minutes to complete the refill task.

Right OK thanks