Skimmer Delay

[Halfmoon]

This is the PL I'm using for a skimmer delay, doesn't work, can someone tell me why?

[Halfmoon]

Anyone?

[Monty]

Did you assign the socked the skimmer is plugged in to the programmable logic?

[Halfmoon]

I assign PL3 to the socket, I have the skimmer shut off for AWC and I have a pressure switch to shut off the skimmer when the waste container is full. I have the logic as follows:
PL1
6515
PL2
6516
PL3
6517

The skimmer shuts off for AWC and when waste container is full. The only logic that doesn't work is the delay, so something must be illogical with my logic. :confused:
I did the logic like this so the skimmer delays any time I shut it off, even after maintenance.
Thanks for the reply,

[Halfmoon]

Bueller? GHL?

[Halfmoon]

Was braucht es, um zu bekommen GHL um zu helfen?

[Halfmoon]

So, I guess by GHL's silence this isn't possible? A simple skimmer delay? Really?

[Monty]

To be honest, it's hard to help you. Your description of your problem is not really clear, nor the result either the trigger of the function.

Tell us step by step what you're aiming for (end result of action) and cause (what will trigger it? And if in sequence what will follow what?

An brief description of your setup would be also helpful.

[Halfmoon]

Thanks for the reply, I will try to be more specific.

My system: Profilux 3.1N eX, 3 PAB 6D, Slave Doser, PLM-ADIN, Vortech Controller, PLM-PWC, 2 LX 6100HV Mitras

PL1 sets the skimmer delay
PL2 turns skimmer off for AWC
PL3 turns skimmer off when waste container is full
My screen shots for this sequence of logic is above in post #4

I can shut the skimmer off during maintenace by simply checking the box next to the proper socket. When maintenance 1,2,3, or 4 ends PL1 should delay the skimmer, it doesn't.

When I do an AWC PL2 turns off the skimmer, this works. When the AWC is over PL1 should delay the skimmer, it doesn't.

When my waste container is full, PL3 shuts off the skimmer, this works. When I empty the container PL1 should delay the skimmer, it doesn't.

I have PL3 controlling the skimmer socket. I hope this is clear enough and seriously do appreciate the help.

[Halfmoon]

I guess I don't get what a support forum is for. I know there are other threads for a skimmer delay, but they don't specifically address my situation. So I started another thread to avoid confusion and have been as clear as I can be. I don't understand why GHL finds it prudent to ignore certain customer questions, do a search and one will find many unanswered questions. I truly expected GHL to chime in and tell me what is wrong with my logic and tell me how it should be written in order to work. It's not like I haven't been trying different things to get this to work on my own, I need help with this and GHL's world class customer support is lacking big time.

[Gunther]

At first: Not all specific behaviors are easy. Programmable logic also isn´t (as you can see below), So please be patient with the GHL staff.

But back to your problem:


I can shut the skimmer off during maintenace by simply checking the box next to the proper socket. When maintenance 1,2,3, or 4 ends PL1 should delay the skimmer, it doesn't.

Why should it delay the skimmer? You have switched off the socket, not the filter #2, so the delay isnt working. Filter #2 is logically on during your manintenance, even if you switch off the socket -> no delay.


When I do an AWC PL2 turns off the skimmer, this works. When the AWC is over PL1 should delay the skimmer, it doesn't.

Also why should it? You have switched off the socket (with PL#2) but not the filter, so the delay also isnt working. Filter #2 is logically on during your AWC, even if you switch off the socket -> no delay.


When my waste container is full, PL3 shuts off the skimmer, this works. When I empty the container PL1 should delay the skimmer, it doesn't.

Same peocedure as before: You have switched off the socket (with PL#2) but not the filter, so the delay also isnt working. Filter #2 is logically on if digital input #1 is triggered -> no delay.

You haven´t respected the order of the functions. The delay only is triggered if filter #2 is switched off (not the socket!). It´s not posible at the moment to "grab" the socket with programmable logic.

A Solution would be:

PL1 (replaces old PL#2):
Input #1: Water change [inverted]
Input #2: Filter #2
Function: AND

PL2 (replaces old PL#3):
Input #1: Digital input #1
Input #2: Programmable logic #1
Function: AND

PL3 (replaces old PL#1):
Input #1: Programmable logic #1
Time: 300
Function: delayed on

As you can see, it uses exactly the same functions as your logic, only the order and chain-linking is different.
Try it out - I can´t guarantee that it is correct due I don´t know your other settings, but it should work in general.

[Halfmoon]

Thank you Gunther, this is the information that is needed and isn't in the program logic manual. The fact that if I switch off the socket the skimmer is plugged into I only switch off the socket but not the skimmer is the stuff that should be in a manual. I can't be the only person that finds that illogical. However, I do get it now that the Profilux doesn't care what socket it is, rather what filter it is delaying.

I leave town tomorrow so, I'll play with it more when I return. At least I'm one step closer to understanding program logic.

Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated. I expect the staff feels some questions here fall under a simple RTFM answer. I feel most users have done that and searched the forum before they ask questions. So while we as users could be more patient, I'm no exception, the staff could post a simple "We're looking at it" to let the user know he isn't being ignored.

Again, thanks for the heads up on progam logic, a light bulb just went off for myself and I'm sure some other users as well.

[Antipodes]

Yes you are right Perry.
I have tried to help when I can with others, but different configurations can mean completely different solutions.
I am not a fan of forums for finding information, very difficult to troll through hundreds of post to find one that is relevent to the information you actually want.
Personnaly I would like to see a FAQ with examples for different configurations and possible different PL and a llist of some of the most common questions with answers.
All takes time to set up I guess and with the many different updates in the software and firmware over the last 2 years, you would have to go through each FAQ and correct it every time an update was made!
But yes Gunther, while not a GHL employee, is very knowledgable and lends his time well to the forum as moderator. So thank you Gunther for the time and effort you put in on behalf of GHL and the people here.

[doggydoc10]

Plus one on logics and FAQ
I bet something like that would help folks here!

[Gunther]

this is the information that is needed and isn't in the program logic manual. The fact that if I switch off the socket the skimmer is plugged into I only switch off the socket but not the skimmer is the stuff that should be in a manual.

Sorry to say that, but in my opinion this is a thing of logic understanding and nothing a manual can cover that easy.
Example: If you turn a bulb out of its fitting, light will go dark, but the switch is still on and there is still the voltage inside the fitting. All options like dimming or delayed on/off will stay unaffected regardless if the bulb is in or not.


I can't be the only person that finds that illogical.

I found the PL is working strictly logic (bolean logic). You have expected things that not happen.
To go further with the example above: You turn out the bulb and now you think the light switch is off. It´s apparent that it isn´t.

And that´s the main problem with the PL: If you don´t see the obvious, a manual couldn´t help. To be honest, I have to say that you are not alone :cool: - a lot of people don´t see such clear correlations (for me) in an abstract environment like the programmable logic is.


However, I do get it now that the Profilux doesn't care what socket it is, rather what filter it is delaying.

You await a feedback from the socket to the filter function that would cause much truble if it was implemented in that way.
Example: There are two sockets, one for the skimmer, another for the filter pump. Both are connected to the filter function. Now, if you switch of the socket for the skimmer but not the socket for the filter - what should happen? If there where a feedback, the filter also would stop (maybe), even if that´s unwanted. So the programmable logic is strictly oneway: Input -> Function -> Output


I expect the staff feels some questions here fall under a simple RTFM answer.

I think it´s the opposite. PL is a mighty tool, but it´s not that easy to master. Sometimes it´s not easy to follow other´s thougts by reviewing a given PL and find an error.

Additional it´s to say that the programmable logic is something universal. It´s not like other functions centered to a specific problem. All other functions of the Profilux adresses a specific behavior and offer a solution for that - only for that and only in the programmer´s way. The programmable logic offers different ways to do one thing and is able to solve problems and create functions the programmer never thought about.

For all who have trouble with the programmable logic I have a link to a simulator: http://www.neuroproductions.be/logic-lab/
It´s very simple and it´s neccessary to use a NOT ito invert inputs for a function but it has in general all functions the PL of the Profilux offers.