Setting up Auto Water Changes - Lots of help required - Totally confused :(

[mattrees]

OK, so Ive been battling with trying to get a AWC setup and for the life of me I cant get it to work
Ive looked at the manuals and tried to look online in these forums, but it just seems to be very confusing for me :confused:

Ultimately what I need to be able to do is:

Turn off Skimmer [S10]
turn Off return pump [S1]
wait 3 minutes (for water to settle and levels to settle)
active pump/solenoid valve to drain approx 40ltrs [S12]
fill 40ltrs using pump from natural salt water tank [S3]
turn on return pump [S1]
wait 3 minutes
turn on skimmer [S10]

Set schedule for weekly change

Sockets 1-12 are being currently used for device control.

Because of the level changes in the sump when the RTN pump is off I need to place my float levels quite high, so I cant use the above for ATO, only water changes

Can anyone guide me thru this?
Ive tried following various tutorials including the beta video tutorial, but it doesnt explain the pauses/ delays and each time Im trying this I seem to be unsuccessful, especially in the area of turning off the devices and waiting before proceeding, and I just end up draining my water away and wasting water.

Thanks for everyones time and help, its greatly appreciated

I really wish there was some better guides available from GHL for this type of thing, surely I'm not the only one totally confused with this process? (or maybe I am!)

[Matthias]

I think this is a very special procedure you want to achieve here - of course we can't have a how-to-manual for every possible setup

our manuals cover the basic function and use of the several ProfiLux features, like AWC (in section level control) or timers

It is not clear for me if this all should be timer-controlled or if a level-sensor should be involved (if so - how)?

if no sensor is involved than just adjust some of the timers

e.g. timer 1 for skimmer, timer 2 for return pump etc. with overlapping time frames

[aqua_digital]

Matthias

what Mattrees is trying to achieve is basic water change but he has found a common hurdle.

The biggest hurdle faced is the fact AWC can not be performed accurately until the sump level has stabilized from water draining back from the tank to the sump when the return pump is off, so there needs to be a "timed wait" function built in so the AWC does not start draining sump water before the tank water has not yet fully drained back down.

Mattrees - the delay on for the skimmer is not too hard just use programmable logic using delay on function.

[mattrees]

Matthias

what Mattrees is trying to achieve is basic water change but he has found a common hurdle.

The biggest hurdle faced is the fact AWC can not be performed accurately until the sump level has stabilized from water draining back from the tank to the sump when the return pump is off, so there needs to be a "timed wait" function built in so the AWC does not start draining sump water before the tank water has not yet fully drained back down.

Mattrees - the delay on for the skimmer is not too hard just use programmable logic using delay on function.

Thats exactly right aqua_digital, thanks
I didnt think it was a 'very special procedure' :)

Is there a good guide to follow for this step by step, I really dont find this system very easy to setup, and I kinda really need to get this setup so I can get my regular water changes in check.
Thanks again for everyones time.

[aqua_digital]

Not yet, we have built a GHL demo system in our home for such purposes but first I must get the system stable and stop adding parts ;)

The most effective way of stopping return pump back drain is to use a non return valve, having said that mine split in half due to the 5 meters of vertical back pressure, showering my basement with oceans finest water!

An official GHL software manual only for these important features would be the best option as it can be changed when firmware gets updates. But until then at some point this year I will do a manual, but it wont be soon.

[siskiou]

Looking forward to the tutorial for this!

I've been thinking about setting up AWC, but can *not* figure out how to accomplish it, with only 2 Level sensors and one needed for ATO.

I guess I could put the "drain water" on a timer, after testing how long it takes to empty the appropriate amount of water, and put the second level sensor at the water line to be reached, when the return/skimmer pumps are off.

But setting it all up in the Profilux, involving programmable logik, is above me.

[Matthias]

it is not that complicated

use the level control mode "AWO and ATO"

use one socket for drainig, one for filling water during ATO and one for filling water during AWC

please read the new manual

[siskiou]

With the changing water level in the sump (return and skimmer pump turned off), you can't use the same level sensor for ATO and AWC.

[d2mini]

I have a large sump (150g rubbermaid stock tank) but I run my AWC while the whole system is completely up running. I use the two level sensors with one tied to the auto top off, set up just like aqua_digital's tutorial.
Been working great for months. I change about 4 gallons, once daily.

[siskiou]

I wish I could do that, but my sump is too small to keep everything running and be able to discard a decent amount of water.
My tank is a 60G cube, and the sump is as large as I can get in there.
The return pump compartment is pretty small and the pump would run dry within a minute.
Maybe I need to knock out some baffles, and just put the skimmer in the refugium part.
The sump is a cube, too, and currently divided through the middle, and then one half divided in half again.
Fuge is in the large half, and the skimmer and return pump each in a quarter.

[mattrees]

it is not that complicated



matthias,

I think this is some of the problem
To you, someone that knows the software inside and out, its not that complicated
For new users to the system, it is
The system is not easy to navigate and understand

Thats why Detailed tutorials and video guides (in my opinion) are mandatory as there are different users here with different experience levels
You have to remember, a lot of people here dont even have a great understanding of computer systems, let alone PLC devices. They just want the system to work.
Most people battle with just setting up the serial / USB connection, let alone the programming.

I could never recommend this system to anyone. Not because of its capabilities, we know the system is very capable. Its because of the usability. Its just not easy to get the system to do what you want it to do without really in depth knowledge of the system and the programming side of things.

[d2mini]

I wish I could do that, but my sump is too small to keep everything running and be able to discard a decent amount of water.
My tank is a 60G cube, and the sump is as large as I can get in there.
The return pump compartment is pretty small and the pump would run dry within a minute.
Maybe I need to knock out some baffles, and just put the skimmer in the refugium part.
The sump is a cube, too, and currently divided through the middle, and then one half divided in half again.
Fuge is in the large half, and the skimmer and return pump each in a quarter.


What if you ran it several times per day, every day? On my old cube tank I used to have an AWC setup using a LiterMeter III from Spectrapure. It was awesome, as it ran 150x per day! So you can imagine how little water was changed out each time. I think the profilux AWC can run around 8x per day? I don't remember exactly. But maybe this would work out better for you since you have such a small return chamber.

[Matthias]

I could never recommend this system to anyone. Not because of its capabilities, we know the system is very capable. Its because of the usability. Its just not easy to get the system to do what you want it to do without really in depth knowledge of the system and the programming side of things.

I think it has too much capabilities.

If we would not have the AWC functions and if there was no "programmable logic" we would not have to discuss about it and why people get confused using this.
Just a few timers like others and that's it. Most people can program a timer.

I think it is not fair to say the usability is that bad - if we just removed the special functions in ProfiLux we had not to discuss these things and ProfiLux would still not have less functions than other controllers.
I think you agree that most of the functions we are discussing here are not available in the competitions's controllers, right?
But does this justify to say that they are easier to use? Just because they don't have these "confusing" functions?

It is really hard to make a very open system with a maximum of flexibility and options.

If this leads to the above quoted statement we should really consider to remove all special functions which "may" confuse the normal user.
Is that what we want?

I don't think we will ever have tutorials or videos for every possible setup, I think a certain situation needs a certain thinking.

[mattrees]

Look I agree, but no offence, where are even the simplest of tutorials by GHL?

All I have seen that covers anything in detail has been published by aqua_digital!
GHL havent done anything to bridge that gap and to make the users more aware of the programming side and understanding of the system
I cant find a simple step by step guide for Programming Logic anywhere

In my opinion, you guys should be writing guides and creating videos every single day to meet most if not all of the requirements of the users

This is a REALLY expensive system and to not even be able to get it to do a automatic water change easily, just doesnt cut it for me

[siskiou]

What if you ran it several times per day, every day?

That might be the way to go! :)

[mattrees]

Thankyou

I followed your advice and it worked
Details listed here:

http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?6952-Mattrees-AWC-setup

[reeferqq]

Just want to share my setup for AWC which is quiet similar to your case except with a second level sensor for low level control of AWC

Sorry for the forum are in chinese but I put some major remark in english for easy understanding. Hope it can help.
http://www.reef.hk/forum/topic/11787-ghl-profilux-p3-ex使用簡介/page__st__540#entry214390

[aqua_digital]

Thanks ;)

are you able to publish it here for easy reference?

[reeferqq]

Just share my AWC setting :

Steps of AWC
4345

G2 & G3 used for cut the power to chiller and heater during AWC
4347

G4 for skimmer with 120 sec delay after AWC completed
4348

G5 & G6 for drain pump turn on 60 sec later after AWC started to let main tank water overflow back to sump tank
4349

4350

[reeferqq]

Con't

Assign for the related socket
4351

Activate AWC by timer or manual through PLC or Touch
4355

sump water level rise after return pump and skimmer stop
4352

4353

60 sec later, drain pump start to pump out old tank water
4354

[reeferqq]

con't

when water level drop to lowest level, trigger level sensor 2
4356

fresh salt water in
4357

4358

when storage tank water drop, trigger the water level sensor to switch on the solenoid valve of RO/DI for ATO
4359

4360

[reeferqq]

con't

when water level rise to upper level trigger the level sensor 1, AWC finished
4361

return water pump immediate start
4362

120 sec after AWC completed, skimmer back to work
4363

Its just my 2 cents, hope it can help for easy understanding.

[coops1234]

Hey Guys

Having some trouble with AWC , I checked out all the Threads but there to old or I dont understand them so if any one that has done the AWC can you plz help me with mine thank you, i have put up how i have set up my sockets

shut of skimmer (S2 Programmble logic 5)
Shut off Return Pump (S1 Always on)
Shut off ATO Fresh water(S12 Fill water)
Pump for drain water (S14 ? )
Pump fill tank Saltwater (S16 ? )

Timer 6 Skimmer Shut off
Timer 7 Return pump Shut off
Timer 8 AWC starts

I have two sensor
Level 1 ATO (Float sensor for high level)
Level 2 ATO ( Optical Sensor)


I have PL3.1n ex 5:14 update
Is there any one that can help????

[reeferqq]

Hey Guys

Having some trouble with AWC , I checked out all the Threads but there to old or I dont understand them so if any one that has done the AWC can you plz help me with mine thank you, i have put up how i have set up my sockets

shut of skimmer (S2 Programmble logic 5)
Shut off Return Pump (S1 Always on)
Shut off ATO Fresh water(S12 Fill water)
Pump for drain water (S14 ? )
Pump fill tank Saltwater (S16 ? )

Timer 6 Skimmer Shut off
Timer 7 Return pump Shut off
Timer 8 AWC starts

I have two sensor
Level 1 ATO (Float sensor for high level)
Level 2 ATO ( Optical Sensor)


I have PL3.1n ex 5:14 update
Is there any one that can help????

Hi，

Could you pls tell what is the problem right now of AWC （ better with screen capture for easy understanding ）？ And I would suggest to link up the skimmer and return pump shut off to AWC rather than to a timer， so that you can program AWC by timer or manual activate if necessary.

[Matthias]

hi guys

my usual reminder:

please open new threads for new cases

we can't support threads where problems of x people are mixed

I think the original thread can be closed

if not: please open a new one with the remaining open questions