Salinity Control Again

[lalasfish]

Hello and Merry Christmas...


I was wondering if anyone can help me with the following issue

I have setup Profilux to do atomatic water change and also salinity control using special functions

Level1 ATO& Water change
Level2 Not enabled
Level3 Ato Top Of

Timer4 : from 3:00PM to 9:00PM ( Fill Tank With RO/DI Water )

Programmable logic

G1: AND Water1 Water change ( inverted )
G2: AND Water1 Water change
G4: AND Water3 Timer4
G5: AND G1 Conductivity increase
G6: AND G1 Conductivity decrease
G7: OR G2 G6



Socket functions

S1: Pogrammable logic4 ( Fill my 250Lt tank with RO/DI water once a week )
S4: Programmable logic5 ( fill sump with salt water )
S5: Programmable logic7 ( fill sump with RO/DI Water )
S16: Water2 ( Water drain from my sump )

Problem with above senario is that when doing water change it fills up my tank with fresh water ....... not salt water

when using ATO function it is working ok.... meaning that if salinity is below set value it adds salt water
if salinity is above set value then it adds RO water......



can anyone tell me what to do???

Regards

Christos

[Matthias]

why so complicated?

1. for ATO of level 3 you need not a programmable logic to achieve ATO only at a certain time, uncheck "always active" and chose timer 4, use water 3 instead of prog logic for the socket

2. water 1 becomes active for ATO and for refilling during AWC
-> G1 = water 1 AND cond increase
-> G2 = [inverse] G1

then assign sockets as wished

[lalasfish]

So true ... so true...

Thank you very much for the help Matthias.... :)

now my tank has rock solid salinity...... :)

[coops1234]

Hey guy

Can it be done where you only have to use one sensor for salinity ATO and ro ATO

[Antipodes]

Hey guy

Can it be done where you only have to use one sensor for salinity ATO and ro ATO

Yes! How do you want it to work. i.e. top up when conductivity is above certain value ro water, when below top up sea water??

[coops1234]

Yes thats correct

[Antipodes]

OK all the usual disclaimers here in that you should check the conductivity probe weekly for correct reading and calibrate monthly to ensure your parameters are not being skewed by an incorrect probe reading!

Having said that, I do use this method and I have a known reading of seawater I have measured (at right temp) and use this to check weekly to spot check the probe. I calibrate monthly!

Using the conductivity setting enable the operation mode at the bottom of the conductivity probe page to two position controller.
Set your nominal conductivity (53 for me), and hysterisis (.3 for me).

select a programable logic
(Assume G3)
set to And
input 1 "Fill water (ATO only) 1
Input 2 "Conduct.(S) 1 Decrease
I am presuming that your level switch is level 1 for this!

Assign your Switch socket to G3 and plug in your valve or pump for your RO water.


select a programable logic
(Assume G4)
set to And
input 1 "Fill water (ATO only) 1
Input 2 "Conduct.(S) 1 Increase
I am presuming that your level switch is level 1 for this!

Assign your Switch socket to G4 and plug in your valve or pump for your Sea water.

If you have AWC set up, then you will need to change a few things.

Create Programable logic (Assume G5)
set to OR
input 1 "Fill water (AWO only) 1"
Input 2 "Programable logic 4"

Assign your Switch socket to G5 (Instead of G4)and plug in your valve or pump for your Sea water.


This will top up sea water until the conductivity reachs the salinity selected and then top up with RO after this.

Some people do not see the reasoning for this, but when you have taken a large amount of sea water out with wet skimming, you don't want to top this up with RO, which brings the salinity down.

Of course ideally you want your salinity set to the same as the sea water your are filling with so it will only fill sea water when a removal of sea water has been done. If you set above this, then salinity will get progressively higher from your water change salinity until the set point of the probe.

Paul From Christchurch, NZ

[coops1234]

Hey mate thanks for that just tested it and it works great just waiting for a pump to drain water. Thanks again Joel

[Antipodes]

No probs Coops, glad to help.

[coops1234]

Hey Paul

How do you have the AWC set up with slinilty

[Antipodes]

Hey Paul

How do you have the AWC set up with slinilty

SOrry Mate but very busy at the mo! Will reply in the weekend with pictures. You have it close, but have missed a couple of things.

[coops1234]

I think I got it

I'm just doing AWC while the tank keeps running 44204421

[coops1234]

nar all wrong lol

[coops1234]

Hey Paul

Did u figure it out I been trying all weekend its doing my head in so much lol

[Antipodes]

Sorry Mate. Had a metal halide fail in the weekend.
Had to dissemble it completely, had to do a complete overhaul.
Do you have Skype? If you do then I will try and chat directly. Let me know and I will PM you my skype address.

[coops1234]

Hey that sucks

My laptop getting fix just been using computer and I don't have camera on it :(
The way I got it set up now works but i have to use 2 sensors now just for awc

Level 1 water change
Sensor 1,3

S17Drain 1
S18Fill water ATO&WAC 1

Level 2 ATO

G6 fill water ATO&WAC 2 AND con decrease
G7 fill water ATO&WAC 2 AND con increase
G8 water change (inverted) programmable 6
G9 water change (inverted) programmable 7

S15programmable 8 ATO fresh water This shuts off the ATO
S16 programmable 9 ATO salt water

[Antipodes]

OK I will show some screen shots of my setup and it is per the description I posted previously in this thread.

Use Level 1 and 2 for ATO and AWC.

4509451045114512

Tried to attach more files, but wont allow me with some german message!

Will post this and then raise another post with rest of images.

[Antipodes]

4514451545164517

Have a look through these pages and analyse how I am doing this.

I noted that you wanted to shut down some pumps while you do a AWC.
You can see I have enable timer 5 for my AWC and I have enable the feed pause to also operate under timer 5. You can set what pumps will shut down during the feed pause by the filter option in the feed pause and each current pump can be set to shut down under the feed pause in the current pump menus.

( I shut down all my tunze pumps, my return and the skimmer feed and recirc pumps.)

I have the programable logic for the sea water top up as it is, because I could not get it to work with ATO and AWC mode together correctly. I found it easy to do it this way.

See what you can and ask questions on what you don't understand.

Sorry forgot to ask. Have you got the programmable logic manual and the actual profilux programing manual. (2 different books).

Also where did you get your gear from. The main importer wholesaler I believe is in Perth, but I have not really seen any help sites from them or any real information they provide?

[coops1234]

hey mate

Just 1 question when I choose Fill water mine only comes up with Fill water (ATO & AWC) I think this is where its been going all wrong cos I cant choose ATO or AWC
and wat firmware u have min 5:14 it not letting me update ;(

I Been getting mine from a guy on the Gold Coast who give it to me for Wholesale price but I know there a guy who sell online for wholesale to he's the cheapest I found http://www.aquaria.com.au/catalog/index.php/cPath/1_34

[Antipodes]

OK.
I have 5.15 firmware and profilux control 5.1.5.4.

Don't understand why you can't upgrade. If your unit is reasonably recent, then it should upgrade fine??

I use a windows 7 Laptop with USB. It works great!

I believe that 5.14 had some problems with levels (or was it 5.13?) anyway should really upgrade.

[coops1234]

hey
I use RS-232 to usb It download fine to my laptop and when I go to update firmware its says (erasing firmware) and then on the profilux it says download yes or no and when I click yes it stops and says
Flasherase-No response-8

Matthias can u help will this plz

[GHL Support]

Perhaps this helps:
http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?634-Connection-with-USB-please-read-first!

[coops1234]

thanks but I just update it 5:16 and 5.1.6.1 and AWC working GREAT :cool
I cant belive I did it lol :cool::cool:

[Antipodes]

thanks but I just update it 5:16 and 5.1.6.1 and AWC working GREAT :cool
I cant belive I did it lol :cool::cool:

good to hear.

[coops1234]

Hey guys

I have set up salilty control and its been working great, but the last week it's been playing up by not topping up with fresh or salt.
I'm using a optical sensor but change it to the float to see if it was that sansor but its still doing it???

Here are some pic

[coops1234]

488548824884[/attach]4883

[coops1234]

I think I found the problem when the water low and salinity at 51.5 its not topping up but when it's lower and salinity under or over the 51.5 mark. When restart the level it tops up BUT only to the salinity mark 51.5 does any one know why I haven't change anything for months

[Antipodes]

Double posting really does not help you know. I have answered on your other thread!

[coops1234]

Hey Paul

Not sure if u would know how but trying to shut off my main pump, because it making to many bubbles when it does water changes. I seem what u done but I have AWC on a timer all ready so I can't do it the way u have it set up
Can u help
Thank you

[Antipodes]

Coops,
Need to see your socket function screen, your programmable logic, your extras/current pump (if you are using this for your circ pump)?
Very hard to give a accurate how to without knowing where you are plugging things into and how you are controlling them.

Having said that the obvious place to set this up will be in progarmmable logic and selecting water change inverted for one of the inputs. For the other input it depends on what the pump is called on your system and how you are controlling it! This will be a start only as it will have to be tested for correct functionality.

[coops1234]

Hey

I can't get any pic of it as I'm away for work
But the socket I'm try to control is my main pump and the function for that socket is always on.
I all ready tryed inverting it in programmble logic but no good

[Antipodes]

You won't be able to do this with an always on socket.
You have to name the pump in the current pump set up or use the filter description (this will turn off on feed pause so decide if you want that or not).
Then you can use the programmable logic. Assign the socket you now have the pump plugged into to the programmable logic you created for this.
Oh and use the And function.
The gist of this is it will run all the time and then turn off when you do a water change.

Personally I have the pump as filter and then enable a feed pause when I do a water change which does not need a programmable logic switch.

[coops1234]

4972497349744975

[coops1234]

Hey Paul I have it setup like this I'm not sure wat to do now lol

[Antipodes]

Coops,
Well like I said, you can't have permanently on.
Permanently on means exactly that, on all the time no questions!!!!

[coops1234]

I have it under socket 1 (programmble logic 9)?

[Antipodes]

I have it under socket 1 (programmble logic 9)?
Ah Sorry I thought it was S14.

Ok I see that socket 1 is not on!
I have just tried this and it worked correctly for me!

Did you tick the invert box on the water change selection in the programmable logic?

If you want to talk to me online through skype, send me a PM and the process may be a bit quicker, particularly if your web cam can be detached and pointed at the screen.

But hopefully you have it sorted now. Note that if you are using feed pause to shut the main pump down during feeding, filter 2 only works with feed pause 2.

I shut down to avoid the floating food going into the overflow.

[leunam]

Hello, I have a question about salinity control.
I have tried the programable logic, but there is a little bug.
Let me try to explain (sorry for my englisch, i'm dutch)
I have made a 2 prog logic's, 1 with Conduct.(S) 1 decrease AND Fill water(ATO only) 1 , 1 with Condust.(S) 1 increase AND Fill water(ATO only) 1.
I have 1 socket assign to prog logic 6, that is for a R/O and i have 1 socket assign to prog logic 7 that is for a salt water tank.
I only use 1 float switch for this.
And i don't use AWC function.

Everything is working fine, when salinity is low and water level is low, it fills up with water out of my salt water tank,
when salinity is high and water level is low, it fills up with r/o water. But now, what i found out, is that when my salinity level is correct but my water level is low, no r/o water or salt water is fill up.
So what now happens is that my water level is getting so low that my low water sump level floaty is triggerd, my return pump stops.

I hope someone got the anwser.

Thank's

[reeferqq]

Does it mean at very low level won't trigger the salinity sensor maxi level? Have you try to narrow the hysteresis setting?

[Antipodes]

Hi Leunam,
What firmware revision are you using.
I will try to replicate this and see if I have that issue.
Also post a screen shot of the conductivity page for me so I can match this also!

[leunam]

Hello,
I'm using firmware 6.02.

What happens is that when my salinity current value is 50mS and my Nominal value is 50mS, so there is no increase or decrease needed, but my water level in my sump is low, som i want to have it fill up. but that don't work.

[leunam]

and here is a screenshot.
5276

[Antipodes]

I have just tested it using 5.17. And you are right, if the salinity stays at the nominal set value then there is no water feed to the top up system.
It needs to rise above hysteresis to turn on water.

I don't seem to have your problem though and I think one of the main differences is that you have your signal filter set very high.
If a large amount of fresh water has evaporated then I would expect the salinity to climb, even slightly.
Try setting to 5 and see if this will allow a better response on you conductivity probe settings.
I have mine set to 6.

The other thing I note is your current salinity is very low, I presume you have this out of the tank or you are doing some sort of testing.

I will upgrade to 6.02 this weekend, but as this same issue is happening with the lower version, I don't expect a difference.

OK I have made a amendment to the programmable logic to get around this issue.

Select your PL For the top up of RO water, select fill water(ATO only) one input, DO NOT select salinity decrease for the other, but select the output of the Seawater programmable logic and invert the function. Ensure AND is set.

This will mean it will always top up RO water into the tank when the level is low, EXCEPT when the tank is being topped up by Seawater because the salinity is low.
Have not physically tested, but did a simulation on the software and seemed to work.

[leunam]

oke thanks, i will give it a try tonight.. i will let you know if it works or not...

[leunam]

Thanks, i have tested it and it runs great. so this problem is solved.

I know that my salinity is a little bit out of range, expiremented alot.

[Antipodes]

Cool, good to know.