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aqua_digital
19.02.2009, 16:45
Many thanks to Lorin from canada for supplying this important information.

OK here is a tutorial on how to do a Automatic Water Change also know as AWC.

Hardware requires:
Profilux Plus II
1 sensor splitter
2 level sensor
3 pumps.

First install both sensor in the desired locations

1st sensor should at the level that you desire to keep your aquarium.
2nd sensor need to be install lower than the first sensor.

HINT: The second sensor is what will stop the pump from discarding water the old water from your aquarium to the drain.

Suggestion: Get a bucket that matches what you want to change, then fill it up with the pump you just install. Pump manually (plug in wall) the old water out that will allow you to know 3 very important thing will come out of this exercise.
1st the amout being change
2nd the time it takes to remove the quantity you want, so that you can set your "max on-time" to avoid disasters.
3rd It will indicate where to install your 2nd sensor, when installing the second sensor, set your profilux in diagnostic mode under the level menu.
Here is how to get to the diagnostic menu.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/IMG_7294.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/IMG_7295.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/IMG_7293.jpg

Now if you have done it according to my suggestion the sensors should read like this: 1- 2- 3-.

Now let start doing to programmation for the profilux side.

1st lets do the programmable logic for the AWC.
You will need to create to 2 programmable logic, for this purpose.
One is used for the day-to-day "Automatic Top-Off" aka ATO.
the other one is used only the case off a water change

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/Programmablelogic-1.jpg

Programmable Logic 1
Input 1 = Water 1
Input 2 = Water change (inverted)
Function AND

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/ProLo2-1.jpg

Programmable Logic 2
Input 1 = Water 1
Input 2 = Water change
Function AND

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/ProLo1-1.jpg

Programmable logic part is done

Level Menu
Now in this menu we need to configure the level sensor function.

Level 1 need to be set to 'ATO & Water Change'
And level 2 NEEDS to be set 'not enabled' otherwise the AWC will not work.

The max on-time is a very important feature to configure it avoid disasters.
If you have followed my suggestion in post 1 you will now know how much time it take to purge your old water from your tanks and set this as your max on-time (add 1 minutes)
As seen in the picture below, it takes about 3 minutes to purge my old water from my system.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/Levels-1.jpg

aqua_digital
19.02.2009, 16:45
*** OPTIONAL CONFIG ***

You can have a Timer start your AWC, all you need to do is to select 'Event start' in the timer windows and your AWC will be done according to that schedule.
Mine is set to Timer 8 and it does it on saturday and sunday @ 8 pm

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/Timer8.jpg

Next the socket definitions
Now you have to set the appropriate socket with the right definitions.

For instance my socket are the following.

Socket 15 is for my ATO

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/SocketATO-1.jpg

Socket 16 is to pump water into the drain.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/SocketDischarge-1.jpg

socket 21 is to pump fresh salt water back into the aquarium

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn22/kidney514/SocketFresh-1.jpg

Thats it - Good luck :)

chippypah
20.02.2009, 01:51
That is a great article.
Cheers
Pete

kidney514
20.02.2009, 16:55
I think I know the guy that wrote that article.... :D :D

aqua_digital
20.02.2009, 17:10
All credit to a chap named Lorin :p:D

90reefernyc
21.02.2009, 20:19
Is this the same way you would do this with the dosing pumps? Or it cant be done with the dosing pump? I currently am using only two out of the four dosing pumps and was wondering if I can do something like this with the other two free pumps? Like lets say turn on dosing pump three for 5 minutes that will take out the old water and then turn on doser 4 for 5 minutes and add fresh mixed salt water?
Thanks , JImmy

Jc16
21.02.2009, 21:01
hello nice forum you guys got here btw. So if i do use a powerhead for this application i will have some problems. my sump is on the floor and wouldn't the powerheads creat a siphon since my resevoir is taller than the sump? any ways to stop the siphon form happening? i always planned to use powerheads for awc and for top off but just figured about the siphon part today!! what can i do help!!and the second problem would be the water level in my sump, i have a 150g sump if i want to change out 3 or 4 gallons out each day i don't think i would even notice the difference in water levels could i not use the second sensor and just program the profilux to turn off the sensor and turn on the pump for the ammount of time it will take me to drain out the desired amount of water. Then fill it back up with another pump that is turned on for a period of time it will take to fill it back to the same level? Thanks again

aqua_digital
21.02.2009, 22:19
Hiya

It is not advised to use dosing pumps as you can over drive them.

In regards to power heads and anti syphon, the best solution is to fit a non return valve.

Jc16
22.02.2009, 10:23
a non return valve wouldn't work as water will siphon out of the reservoir into the sump the same way it's being pumped as the reservoir is taller than sump what do you guys use for top off?

dipan
13.07.2009, 06:53
Plumb a solenoid inline with your powerhead. You can get one fairly cheap from various places (I have a few from autotopoff.com). It will restrict your flow to a small extent, but will completely cutoff flow and completely prevent a siphon (either way, regardless of what water level is higher than the other) I would just plug it into the same controlled socket as the powerhead, that way, when the powerhead is controlled to the on position, so would the solenoid.

I have yet to try this, but this is what I'm kindof planning as my RO/DI reservoir will be about 7ft tall ... way taller than my sump.

larryfl1
15.07.2009, 22:23
i have a question or 2 in this procedure...

i see the reference to set the water max time for the time it takes to purge the volume you want plus a minute...

what setting needs to be set for maximum time for the fillup portion of awc and also the ato? is that taken into consideration in this setup?

i do know you have an overflow sensor as safety but would like to rely on the time also as additional safety..

B B
21.07.2009, 02:23
This is a great article. It should be sticky.

skippy
12.01.2010, 00:44
Can somebody get Lorin (Kindey514) to rehost the photo's as his photobucket account has been inactive.

I can work out all the progamable logic but can't see which progamable logic that he assiged each switch port

aqua_digital
12.01.2010, 00:46
I will try but he has fallen off the face of the earth, dont really hear from him anymore.

kidney514
12.01.2010, 02:29
I will try but he has fallen off the face of the earth, dont really hear from him anymore.

Done ;)

aqua_digital
12.01.2010, 02:32
:eek: He lives! :p

skippy
12.01.2010, 04:47
Lori

Thanks for that I will have something to play with on my P3 when I get home for work.

Regards

Paul

Gilles
14.01.2011, 12:46
In case any of you have any questions about AWC, take a look at the programming guide, this offers much more explanation then the default guide.

mr murphy
18.07.2011, 22:47
where is the programming guide

Wirus
18.07.2011, 23:24
where is the programming guide

It is where it should be: In the download section (http://support.aquariumcomputer.com/english/sections.php)

hemoi
17.08.2011, 02:12
Hi All,
Has this process changed now for the PIII using 2 sensors ? I am using firmware 5.09. I was hoping not to have to use the programable logic, but I can't see how to activate my salt water pump to do the refill during a WC and RO/DI during normal ATO ?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
Hemant

GazzMan
27.10.2011, 19:39
bump this up as i would like to know the same thing please

shardyl
23.11.2011, 12:11
Hi

I do not need to know exactly how but I would need to know before purchasing the Profilux 3 that the following is possible (Ideally from a moderator)

Please see attached diagram to understand more fully 2033

Pump 1 saltwater drain
Pump 2 saltwater fill
Pump 3 auto top off
Pump 4 return pump

Level sensor 1 (auto top) + (second saltwater fill)
Level sensor 2 (leakage detection) + (return pump)
Level sensor 3 (second auto top off) + (Salt water fill level)

Function: saltwater change

Level sensor 1 (auto top) CHANGES TO (second saltwater fill)
Level sensor 2 (leakage detection) CHANGES TO (return pump)
Level sensor 3 (second auto top off) CHANGES TO (Salt water fill level)

Pump 1 saltwater drain ON

Level sensor 2 (return pump) REACHES LOW LEVEL
Pump 4 return pump OFF

5 mins after function start ie. (Pump 1 saltwater drain ON)

Pump 1 saltwater drain OFF
Pump 2 saltwater fill ON (*Timer starts)

Level Sensor 2 (return pump) REACHES HIGHER LEVEL/ OR RAISES LEVEL
Pump 4 return pump ON

Level sensor 3 (Salt water fill level) or Level sensor 1 (second saltwater fill) REACHES LEVEL
Pump 2 saltwater fill OFF

(If maximum time limit is reached from *Timer start then pump automatically switches off, alarm sounds and email notification that problem has occurred. I no problems occurred then sensors switch back as below)

Level sensor 1 (second saltwater fill) CHANGES TO (auto top)
Level sensor 2 (return pump) CHANGES TO (leakage detection)
Level sensor 3 (Salt water fill level) CHANGES TO (second auto top off)

aqua_digital
02.12.2011, 19:11
in a nutshell the answer is yes. Maybe a few tweaks but anything with GHL is possible.

shardyl
02.12.2011, 19:37
Thank you so much!

I thought It would but wanted to check for sure before buying. I took the gamble and went and bought anyway! Now all I need is an app to initiate it remotely and my dream will be coming true!

shardyl
28.12.2011, 23:27
Hi

I am wondering why my level page looks different to the one in this thread?

I dont seem to have the same options?

2144

Blahenazo
06.01.2012, 20:03
OP was using an old version of PLC ( all the options in 1 page and only 3 level inputs)

its now not longer possible with all the different level sensor to put all settings on 1 page
more options become available if you click on the sensor then then edit.

new version should have same options

which options can't you find ?

ps: when I select level 1 , 2 or 4 I only get 3 option to set the sensor , when I select higher level sensors (like 4 or 5 I get ATO & waterchanget and all the other options à
I don't know why that is ???? maybe someone else will know.

gamesnokia
08.02.2012, 19:27
Just a question on the list of equipment that I need to set up ATO using RO water and auto water change using pre-mix salt water container, which will be filled in using RO water and than mixed with required amount of salt:
ATO:
1) 1 sensor splitter
2) 2 level sensor (set up in a sump)
3) Water solenoid to fill sump with RO water

Auto water change:
For example I have 500l aquarium and 100l container for preparing salt water
In addition to ATO equipment I understand that I need the following as well:
1) Profilux expansion box for additional level, temperature and salinity sensors to be set up in 100l container for preparing salt water
2) 1 sensor splitter
3) 2 level sensor (set up in a 100l container for overflow protection)
4) Water solenoid to fill RO water in 100l container for preparing salt water
5) Pump saltwater drain from a sump
6) Pump saltwater fill from 100l container to sump
Will profilux be able to control 4 level sensors and two sets of temperature and salinity (aquarium and 100l container)?

Is it correct?

Or are there any solutions so that I can fill RO water directly into sump when doing water changes so that there no need for a 100l container and maintain water salinity with dosing unit?

aqua_digital
24.07.2012, 12:50
We are looking for somone in the North America region to update this guide - please email me at sales@aqua-digital.com for our offer for your time to do so.

Thanks.

supermario
26.07.2012, 19:54
How can i do ATO and AWC with an PIII and Profilux control 5.1.4.3?
It looks very different and i cannot find things like water1, water2, etc.
Thanks,
Mario

GHL Support
27.07.2012, 12:55
Hello,

please have a look at the new manual for firmware version 5.14 (in our download section).
Meanwhile there have been some significant changes in the level control programming.

supermario
27.07.2012, 16:02
thanks, i did that...
but, the manual does not explane how to set up a ATO & AWC with two sensors. The manual just says that its possible, but how i must do it :-)
somebody?
Thanks,
Mario

supermario
29.07.2012, 11:45
ok, finaly the AWC works. I have 2 sensors. S3 programmed for drain sump, S2 for fill water (salt water). SO far so good. S1 is for filling RO-water (ATO). How must i fix S1 that it wil stop ATO during AWC? For this moment S1 is active during saltwater fill. Dangerous!
Anyone can help? It's NOT in the manual...
Thanks en grtz,
Mario

kassysimon
05.09.2012, 13:22
hi supermario.

How did you get your AWC to work? I cant work it out either????

For S1 to stop you can try this. but im not entirely sure it is correct.

Open programmable logic menu in PLC
Clic on G1
Set "Input 1" to "(waterever you have it set for your ATO)" and "(waterever you have it set for your ATO)"
Set "Input 2" to "Water change" and check "Invert" box
Set Function to "AND"
Close and save it with "OK"
Open "System"->"Socket functions" in PLC
Assign "Socket 1" to "Programmable logic 1"
Close and save it with "OK"


this might work.

ninobart
07.11.2012, 11:39
How could I get my skimmer to start on a delay using this way of programming of my asw/ato?

reef
10.11.2012, 09:57
Meanwhile there have been some significant changes in the level control programming.
Will it be possible to pause the level control sensors for water changers when the new firmware is released?

benner
10.11.2012, 14:48
I want to issue this caution and warning to those attempting or who want to have their p3 perform ato and awc.......when I purchased my p3 almost 1 year ago I was promised that these functions were among some of the more simpler things that the p3 can do......I soon learned that I had been lied to......
When I finally got to the point of setting this feature up, ghl had no idea how to accomplish this feat and the support was terrible. Finally, a how to guide was released but there is still way too many glitches and things that need to be fixed for this to actually work properly. I am still not using the p3 to do ato or awc..... The tunze osmo later is still in my opinion much more reliable....
I also heed warning to those who want to use a solenoid like aqua digital shows in their how to video for ato......I purchased a solenoid from autotopoff.com and setup just like Michael shows.....it lasted one week and then the solenoid failed open.....which is why to me a solenoid has no place in ato....it must be a pump! I woke up to my tank overflowing from the ato and my salinity was 45ms.....I almost lost everything! Michael continues to tell me that the p3 has the needed security features that could have prevented this from happening..... But he is so arrogant that it has left him stupid.....NOTHING STOPS THE WATER FROM FLOWING THROUGH A SOLENOID THAT HAS FAILED OPEN! The only way to stop water flowing at this point is to turn off the valve manually if you have installed one..... THIS IS THE ONLY WAY! For those who are considering using the p3 for ato and awc please be careful.....look what happened to me.....and look around at other p3 others.....most I know do not use their p3 to perform a "simple" task like ato simply because the profilux needs to have the bugs worked out in order to do so. Not many actual end users seem to post on the forum saying that they have their ato and awc up and running great now for whatever amount of time....just seems to be ghl saying it is easy, simple, and no problem at all.....Anyways, for what it is worth.....I am still using my tunze osmo to do ato because when I tried to use the p3 I almost had a complete system crash.....PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!!!



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benner
10.11.2012, 14:56
I spent about $500 to get the required equipment to do the ato and awc and for what? So I could wake up to a disaster after only one week of use..... I was very angry when this happened and aqua digitals arrogance made it even worse.....which is why I chose to end communication with aqua digital as I believe this will only better my reefing experience.... I still use my tunze for ato....it costed me $225 and has never filed me once in three years.....I want an end user (not ghl) to post on here confirming they have used the same equipment with the profilux for that same amount of time I have used tunze without any problems.....anyone?


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aqua_digital
10.11.2012, 15:04
Hi Benner,

I am sorry you felt our advise a month ago was arogant I am not sure reading the email I have in front of me here led you to think that. You did not inform to me you were using a solenoid when we replied, or the reason for the failure, no mention was made at all. Furthermore every solenoid I have ever used is fail safe spring shut, when power is lost the spring is so powerful it will shut the solenoid. becuase the spring is compressed not stretched it can not break in the open position. I have never yet come across one made the opposite, of course that does not mean there is not one :(

Here is my reply to you, I am sorry how you read this as arrogant. My reply was based on the limited information you gave as to the reason of the fault. If you mentioned the solenoid I likely would have offered to send you one of my own personal ones free of charge as a personal gesture.

Hi Ben,

Here is a little check list to avoid such situations in the future, this applies to any controller or top off unit

1. Regularly clean the sensor, we advise weekly, these are not maintenance free devices and are subject to all manner of grime and build up due to the nature of their employment, also check for cable integrity, breaks twists etc
2. Set the Auto top off time out to approx. 30-60 seconds depending on sump size, this will stop any mechanical failure putting excess fresh water in your system. Any longer than this and you can still have a salinity drop.
3. I personally advice replacing float switches at least every two years due to be mechanical. This is just my own safe guard I use myself and not a direction from the manufacturer
4. Make sure your audible alarm is set so if the top off does time out you are made aware to stop the system running low on water.

I hope you find this little check list of benefit.

There was no further email or comminication after my email above, and no mention that your system failed due to a dodgy solenoid, if there was the above email reply would have no relevance to the situation. I am sorry I fail to see how my above reply is arrogant, :eek: but I apologise if somehow you read it that way.

Nobody other than the maker of the solenoid can be blamed for the fault really, thats not fair to do so. We have no control over the equipment a person uses.

I have used a solenoid for many years, both here and in the UK and never once had any failure. But with your experience this of course does lead us to suggest asking the manufatcurer of the fail safe qualities.

I have used GHL ATO for about 3 years on my current system with not one fault - I am a GHL owner and user.

I am not aware of a single bug in the ATO or AWC system, yes I agree there could be some short cuts put in place to avoid the over use or need for complicated programmable logic more so in regards to AWC than ATO, and my video guide has been well received and used by many. But in regards to bugs, I cant find any reported ones currently.

doggydoc10
10.11.2012, 15:06
Never used it for auto water change.
I do have TWO solenoids connected directly to my RODI. But in also have a 5 galling reservoir. So even if my solenoid fails, I will only get 5 gallons of RO into my system.
Unfortunately I must agree with you regarding aqua digital. I have also ended my communication with them soon after having the same "feelings" re their "attitude"
Again THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. I am sure they mean well, but we just don't seem eye to eye on MULTIPLE things.

benner
10.11.2012, 15:23
I was trying to do ato with one optical level sensor like I was told is the best way by aqua digital. I will not be using solenoids ever again!
I have a sps system so I have a lot of water flow. When I do a feed pause it kills most water flow/turbulence in my tank.....this lowers the water level in my sump slightly and turns on ato..... There is currently no way to prevent this according to matthias and I have found posts from over a year ago from people asking for this to be fixed. How are you doing ato with two sensors Antonio? Can you explain? Pictures say a 1000 words :)


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aqua_digital
10.11.2012, 15:32
When I do a feed pause it kills most water flow/turbulence in my tank.....this lowers the water level in my sump slightly and turns on ato.....

Hi Ben,

To help us understand your issue better, can you post here how the sump level drops when you do a feedpause? Where does the water go?

The sump I assume is below your main tank and water either goes out via the main pump or most likely when the main pump shuts off drains into the sump thus raising the level. You have got me baffled ;) how your sump drops in level.

When I do a feedpause my sump rises as the main pump is switched off. if I turn off just the circulation pumps there is no effect on the ATO. My further understanding is even if the for some reason the ATO did come on it would only be to top up this tiny drop and would balance itself out on restart through overfill evaporation.

For us to establish a best solution for your situation we need to understand the physics to your system and know where the water is draining from in your sump to lower the sump water level?

Please can you post a picture of this actual failed solenoid? I want to see if it is the same we have and also recently purchased for our new build. Or send me the photo and I will post here. If there are fail false solenoids out there its important everyone can see the type also. I will also on Monday will contact the supplier you and I used directly for their comments to the type of solenoid they are supplying as the last thing we want to do is recommend a fail false product. I will also purchase one and take it apart just to be sure the info provided is accurate.

benner
10.11.2012, 16:32
The only conclusion I can come to is that the water volume is made larger by the turbulence from power heads.....I do not kill my return pump or my wavebox.....just power heads.....I have five tunze 6055s.....the sump level lowers very slightly (probably can't even see to the naked eye) but this activates the extremely accurate optical level sensor for ato.....it takes approx 5 to 6 mins to complete this topoff if power heads are left off.....power heads are only left off for 5 mins during feedpause so the ato never actually catches up during feedpause. However, I have my level sensor set to time out after 1 minute......alarm goes off during very feedpause to tell me that the ato timed out.....only way to make it work was to let it run for the full 5 to 6 mins during and after feedpause.....I have been informed by other sources that this solenoid is not intended for that long of continuous use anyways......I do three feedpause a every days.....so too hard on the solenoid.....when it failed I have since scrapped the whole p3 ato idea.....I can maybe see how two sensors would allow a larger tolerance much like the tunze has.....tunze allows a fluctuation of approx .2 to .3 ms whereas the optical sensor from ghl allows pretty much zero fluctuation.....
I do still have the two optical sensors, are you using optical sensors Antonio?


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doggydoc10
10.11.2012, 16:35
I am using one optical one mechanical sensor.
I will email you pics once I get home later today

aqua_digital
10.11.2012, 16:38
In this case you can use the delay on feature of the ATO so the level has to be below this timed level for the ATO to actuate.

You have two excellent fail safes

1. Reaction time (delay on) to stop water turbulance or minor changes such as this
2. safety time out. (as far as i am aware this will not overide the delay on and no false alarm will sound)

Programming guide manual explanation

3.2.1 Reaction time
Here the Reaction time the level sensor can be set between 0 s and 240 s. To prevent that movements of the
water surface lead permanently to an activation of a sensor and through this a belonging switchable socket is
switched on and off all the time, ProfiLuxmonitors if the signal (= water there/not there) transmitted by the sensor is
stable. Stablemeans in this case that a change of the level has to remain constantly at least for the set reaction time.
Only if the level is stable, the level control reacts. The reaction time shall be set sufficiently so that waves don’t cause
an activation of the regulation, but small enough that a reached level is not recognized too late!

Both would not have stopped your fail false solenoid issue of course but I am very keen to see this type solenoid as it clearly must be avoided, I have never seen one made like this before.

reef
10.11.2012, 20:49
Sound like major drama.

I was using a tunze ato and using the ghl as a alarm should the tunze fail, it has worked out well. i had fresh water in a 200L bin,

This week i actually connected a solenoid valve to the tunze so that it gets water directly from the mains as i keep running out of water in the 200L bin.
I still have the GHL as back up so if the Tunze fails then the GHL will trigger a Alarm if the sump gets to a certain level,

A good idea is to reduce the out flow from the solenoid valve so that if it ever failed then it can only put in a limited amount of water , so basically it could top up freshwater all day and it will not have a major effect.

My big issue is doing water changers on my tank. I have been waiting for a year for GHL to fix these so that i can stop the level control until i finish my manual water changers as i am sick of getting alarms.

Over the years i found the alarms are mainly from the level sensors due to various reasons, so as you can see this is a very important area.


Another thing to be aware of.

solenoid valves needs pressure to work, so if the pressure is not enough going threw them it is likely that it may not work correctly. most solenoid valve will not work with no pressure to force them open or close.

aqua_digital
10.11.2012, 21:19
My big issue is doing water changers on my tank. I have been waiting for a year for GHL to fix these so that i can stop the level control until i finish my manual water changers as i am sick of getting alarms.

This is important feedback. I think more a feature request? If I am right from the above quote, you want a level control over ride when doing manual water changes so alarms do not go off? I agree this would be a beneficial feature for those not using AWC. In the meantime when you are accessing the profiLux to turn off your sump pump and skimmer etc you could also turn alarms off at the same time?


solenoid valves needs pressure to work, so if the pressure is not enough going threw them it is likely that it may not work correctly. most solenoid valve will not work with no pressure to force them open or close.

This depends more on the type of solenoid, electro magnetic solenoids need no pressure to work however excess pressure can stop them closing if the pressure load is greater than the spring return rating of the solenoid, this is why I put the solenoid on the flow side not the mains pressure side. There is little pressure on the flow side and providing you are using a pressure close valve on the mains water side, there should be no back pressure build up.

reef
11.11.2012, 07:40
In the meantime when you are accessing the profiLux to turn off your sump pump and skimmer etc you could also turn alarms off at the same time?
Sure but it takes time especially if you have 4 sensors and it is a pain to turn everything off.



This is important feedback. I think more a feature request? If I am right from the above quote, you want a level control over ride when doing manual water changes so alarms do not go off?
Have been requesting this for over a year, surly everyone else who has a profilux must have the same problem when making water changers . as soon as you turn off your main pump all the alarms go off as the water in the sump rises.

ninobart
11.11.2012, 08:03
Hi,

I have setup my ato/awc as aqua digital has advised in his thread and have no problems what so ever. Don't have my water level in my sump or dp drop when I turn of my vortechs during feed pause. Also tunze osmolator optical solenoid looks exactly like the ghl ones. I'm pretty happy with the setup given by aqua digital.

benner
11.11.2012, 22:22
In this case you can use the delay on feature of the ATO so the level has to be below this timed level for the ATO to actuate.

You have two excellent fail safes

1. Reaction time (delay on) to stop water turbulance or minor changes such as this
2. safety time out. (as far as i am aware this will not overide the delay on and no false alarm will sound)

Programming guide manual explanation

3.2.1 Reaction time
Here the Reaction time the level sensor can be set between 0 s and 240 s. To prevent that movements of the
water surface lead permanently to an activation of a sensor and through this a belonging switchable socket is
switched on and off all the time, ProfiLuxmonitors if the signal (= water there/not there) transmitted by the sensor is
stable. Stablemeans in this case that a change of the level has to remain constantly at least for the set reaction time.
Only if the level is stable, the level control reacts. The reaction time shall be set sufficiently so that waves don’t cause
an activation of the regulation, but small enough that a reached level is not recognized too late!

Both would not have stopped your fail false solenoid issue of course but I am very keen to see this type solenoid as it clearly must be avoided, I have never seen one made like this before.

I had my ato sensor set to 10s reaction time.....this worked good minus my other problems....my solenoid was at my tank and had very little pressure build up on it....especially after being opened for a few secs....I will provide a pic of it in a bit....maybe in the next post ;) It worked perfect right up to the point where now it sticks open every time it is energized and then de energized.....I will be using pumps from here on in....much safer IMO.... I am building a custom acrylic ato with 4 additional additive sections....I will run my line from rodi unit to this acrylic tank and put on a manual valve as well as a mech float valve....I will be running alk, calcium, and mag in the additive reservoirs....I bought 3 BM 5L additive containers but I will not be using them......takes up too much space....I will continue to run the tunze osmo. I really wanted to get my ato set up too because I needed to get rid of my current 6gallon bucket feeding tunze osmo in order to set up my doser with additives....but now I will just do it all at once with this acrylic tank instead.....


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benner
11.11.2012, 22:40
Here is the guilty one.....

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/u6e9atah.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/tadezuze.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/upuhuzyd.jpg


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aqua_digital
11.11.2012, 22:42
Hi

You mentioned in yoru first post you felt the ATO system was full of bugs. Other than the solenoid issue everything seems to be working ok from what I can see, and no other reports of issues. However it is very important your concerns in regards to bugs are addressed.

There are set up requests and concerns with the AWC and GHL have stated they are looking at makign a more intuitive system for everyone (less need for programmable logic I think is a big step and suggestion made by me). But the system works as above posts show.

Could you please list what you feel are software bugs so GHL directly can address them all for you which I think is important for you personally to feel assured and comfortable with the system.

aqua_digital
11.11.2012, 22:44
Thanks for the photos, thats not what they supplied us, I will ask them on Monday if they have changed suppliers, if so I would obviously not recommend it. I would suggest also contacting them and informing them of the flaw in the product.

Also looks like yours may have the adjustable spring load tensioner on the top? These are designed ( I think) to be adusted to take into account different water pressures.

benner
11.11.2012, 23:17
Not too sure about an adjustable tensioner....this is it again.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/py6y7yqu.jpg




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aqua_digital
11.11.2012, 23:21
yep totally different, mine is a sealed unit.

benner
11.11.2012, 23:35
Ok here are some issues I found to be frustrating and difficult when using the ato.... I am using a single optical solenoid and it only offers the reaction time as the tolerance instead of actual tank levels....I will admit it will stick my ms dead on at 53 but even with reaction time set high, the socket only activates for a second or two and I would rather have a larger tolerance and activate the socket for a bit longer.....especially if I want to use a pump....I guess there is the option to use two optical or maybe a float instead but if that is the case then I would rather the osmo because it offers this plug and play. I disagree with the one post here stating the osmo sensor is the same as ghl optical..... Maybe they are the same sensor and tunze does the programming for you but then what is the programming I can use to match the performance they are getting from their optical sensor??
Next issue which was quite annoying for me was the feedpause issue....causing my ato to turn on as mentioned before..... There must be an option to reactive or change sensor settings during things such as feedpause, water change, maintenance, etc....
I did not make it to the water change feature but I can foresee issues.....such as will my reaction time for top sensor (ato) still be in effect??
I still have my two optical sensors so once I get my ato and doser setup properly I will maybe attempt to use these two sensors to do awc.....
These issues alone were quite annoying when using the ato setup with profilux for the one week that I did and then when the solenoid faild open and flooded my tank with fresh water for 6 hours I just could not use this setup anymore! I had hoped to do away with my bucket for fresh water since it would feed direct to solenoid and then I was going to put the BM additive containers in and setup doser....I have decided I only want to use a fresh water container with pump and osmo (at least until ghl can fix issues) and so this has held up my doser setup until I can finish building new holding tank for ato and additives.....

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aqua_digital
11.11.2012, 23:48
Yes you are right if you want reaction time to be based on water level you do need two sensors, this is not a bug, or a program setting that can change this as it needs a lower sensor to provide the second reading you would desire. I think this is mentioned in the manual under the level section.

For AWC the ATO settings are overridden until the AWC has finished its duty cycle, so you would not see issues there from what I can see.

I agree in regards to an option to suspend ATO while doing manual water changes or feedpause etc, I will put this forward as metioned in a previous comment ;)

We hope you try it all again, as it is unfortunate you had this issue with the solenoid, but to be fair that is not the ProfiLux's fault at all. Try with the pump and try with the two sensors as described in the manual to give upper level and lower level ATO. Please let us know how you get on.

From what i can see from above, the software offers everything you are asking for including the option to use two sensors. And the suggestion of an override has been noted :)

If you think of anything else that could benefit the system, software related please post your thoughts and they can always be put forward for introduction.

aqua_digital
11.11.2012, 23:50
Section 3.11 in the Manual

ATO 2 sensors
Like ATO, but 2 sensors are used to register the same level. Only if both sensors register at the same time a too low
level, the switchable socket with function Water fill is activated. So this function offers an additional safety.

Meaning - both sensors have to be out of the water to turn the ATO on which is what you are requesting (I think)

benner
12.11.2012, 00:01
Here is another pic of solenoid....
Is the shaft supposed to stay stuck in as I have shown in the last pic below??

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/e2u3e5u5.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/ugahahe6.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/e8uta9as.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/12/anehadyd.jpg


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aqua_digital
12.11.2012, 00:05
I dont know you would have to talk to the supplier, I have never seen model before.

benner
12.11.2012, 00:11
I seen the two sensor option but two sensors will cost me $250..... Not worth it IMO
I am stable again and my system is doing good. My next step will be to setup my acrylic holding tank and the profilux doser....
I am also having issues using ntp....I started a thread on this.


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Halfmoon
17.12.2012, 17:41
yep totally different, mine is a sealed unit.
Michael,
Could you post a picture of the solenoid you use? Where you bought it? I have the same one as benner and don't want the same problem.

aqua_digital
17.12.2012, 17:50
it came from BWi plumbing who informed me it was an auto top off supplied unit.

The solenoid was sold with mt tank as I am upgrading. I will post a picture of the new one I will be using when I get it.

Halfmoon
17.12.2012, 20:28
it came from BWi plumbing who informed me it was an auto top off supplied unit.

The solenoid was sold with mt tank as I am upgrading. I will post a picture of the new one I will be using when I get it.
Okay, I just got a reply from auto top off and the one I have is spring loaded. Power on opens the solenoid with a magnetic field and power off the spring shuts off flow. Seems like the right one to me, I'll still use an R/O float I have that mechanically seals off the hose outlet for another level of safety. I've used that for years on my storage container without issue, thanks for the reply.

aqua_digital
17.12.2012, 20:32
The simplest solution and most fail safe is to employ a mechanical float switch value situated slightly above where you want the fill level to be, this way if the solenoid sticks the inlet will be stopped by the float valve when it reaches this threshold.

Halfmoon
18.12.2012, 01:31
I think we're talking about the same thing, I saw someone else using this as added security:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reverse-osmosis-float-valve.html

aqua_digital
18.12.2012, 01:39
Yep that's the ticket

b_claeys
19.01.2013, 18:34
I found that the simplest way to avoid a syphon is to make sure that the tube comming out the reservoir goes up until it is above the sump.
at the point I have to bend it down to go into the sump I connected a tube with a larger diameter.
the thicker tube should stay wel above the desired level in the sump, as the thicker tube is always half filled with air it drains without sucking any additional water out your reservoir when you stop the pump. The water in the tube comming from the reservoir flows back to the reservoir.
no need for any valves that can fail

mattrees
27.04.2013, 06:25
Can we get an updated guide for this?
Or possibly unsticky this?

I found this post to be outdated and not applicable for latest revisions of firmware
It just confused matters :(

Matthias
27.04.2013, 08:49
this is right, with the new firmware version we have built-in functions for handling water refill for ATO und AWC separately

Halfmoon
27.04.2013, 14:34
Maybe an official GHL software manual for such functions would be beneficial with screen shots and step by step guide.
X2, If there is a way to do AWC without program logic I'd love to know how.

Matthias
27.04.2013, 15:29
no, you don't need programmable logic for a simple automatic water change

setup a level control, then assign to the sockets you want to use "fill water (AWC)" and "drain water"

sometimes it becomes a little bit more special if one sensor is used for ATO and AWC

-> then use socket functions "fill water (ATO)" and "fill water AWC" for the 2 different water types you want to refill

aqua_digital
27.04.2013, 16:02
Matthias, this is great if you have two bowls of water with no other equipment and want to take one out of one bowl and put it into another. but there are many ancillary pieces of equipment in the reef system that have to be turned off, allow water to stabilize and other complications.

The tools that are now within the software do enable to drain and fill without programmable logic now which is great, however systems are a lot more complex for live water changes to take place and this is where the request for additional functions are requested without the need for PL.

The biggest would be timed event start. Meaning once the return pump is switched off for event start the system does not start draining your sump for a set amount of time allowing for the sump level to stabilize. The other one of course is skimmer switch back on delay after AWC is complete to avoid overflow of skimmer cup, but this is covered with the simplest PL of course. Clients with other equipment will have different needs.

Halfmoon
27.04.2013, 16:04
I may have to revisit that Matthais, tried that first and never could get it to work. Had to use program logic.

Matthias
27.04.2013, 16:53
Matthias, this is great if you have two bowls of water with no other equipment and want to take one out of one bowl and put it into another. but there are many ancillary pieces of equipment in the reef system that have to be turned off, allow water to stabilize and other complications.

The tools that are now within the software do enable to drain and fill without programmable logic now which is great, however systems are a lot more complex for live water changes to take place and this is where the request for additional functions are requested without the need for PL.

The biggest would be timed event start. Meaning once the return pump is switched off for event start the system does not start draining your sump for a set amount of time allowing for the sump level to stabilize. The other one of course is skimmer switch back on delay after AWC is complete to avoid overflow of skimmer cup, but this is covered with the simplest PL of course. Clients with other equipment will have different needs.

why can't you use several timers?

first switch of the return pump with timer A
later start AWC with timer B

?

and if it becomes very special than use more timers and/or programmable logic

aqua_digital
27.04.2013, 16:59
Ok the point is "software tutorial"

a tutorial to help guide users to these features, the current manual does not go into this in any way.

But this debate is for email chat not forum ;)

mattrees
28.04.2013, 02:01
I agree with aqua_digital

Why arn't these tutorials available?
It seems that the demand is here for them
And a lot of users are unable to use a lot of the profilux features without them

Matthias
28.04.2013, 08:54
let us stay at the OP topic, OK?

if you need general debates about tutorials, manuals, videos atc. then please open a new thread

Matthias
29.04.2013, 06:43
since this thread is not up-to-date anymore since the resent firmware changes of the ProfiLux and ths thread became very confusing with too many mixed topics I think it is better to close it

please open for each support case extra threads and give there all details which are needed to help you in a reasonable manner