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View Full Version : Firmware upate over USB - unplug powerbars before!



Matthias
01.04.2010, 06:54
Thanks for your feedback.
How did you update? Over onboard USB or converter? With ProfiLuxControl or Flasher Tool?
Any problems during update?

Ken Good
01.04.2010, 13:27
I used the serial port. I had no issues. My cord was usb to serial.

Ken

aqua_digital
01.04.2010, 14:36
would it be possible for you to try again USB to USB and give me feedback on your findings? This is important information to help me with support cases.

Ken Good
01.04.2010, 15:46
I am traveling today, but will do this tonight.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 14:30
I am sad to report that I tried this as requested with devastating results. The installation over the USB to USB stopped in the middle. DO NOT USE USB TO USB TO INSTALL FIRMWARE "P."

Ken

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 14:33
Hi Ken

I do not think the flash tool can be used with USB to USB it can only be used with RS232 or converter

What I meant was to attempt update using ProfiLux control over direct USB.

You are able to restore ok and then try firmware update over profiLux control USB to USB ?

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 14:58
I am trying to restore now. Do I need to use the jumper on the profilux 3 like it says to in the profilux 2 user manual? Cannot seem to find directions to use flasher for p3.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 15:00
Found directions and attempting to follow.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 15:05
Okay. I got it back. The flasher program worked easy cheesy (after finding and following directions).

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 15:49
I am back up and running.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 15:51
Hi Ken

What I meant was to attempt update using ProfiLux control over direct USB.

You are able to restore ok and then try firmware update over profiLux control USB to USB ?

This is what I tried to do and the system stopped in the middle of the firmware update. It would not go forward and this is where I had to have a crash course in the flasher program (great program by the way).

There is a forum thread on directions for using and it was exactly what I did and had no problem.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 15:51
You cannot keep a good reefer down.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 16:00
I did go back and reinstall the firmware "p" using my usb to rs232 and had no problems reinstalling. I would say that my hands were shaking a little when I went to press the button since it took me a little over two hours when I did this with the usb to usb. But went through like it always has before. Like I have said before, I should be a little more scared to press buttons, but hey it all worked out again. If you were looking to me to say that the usb to usb installation of firmware "p" works fine, I can only say the opposite. It stopped in the middle. It was like it lost connection in the middle of the install of the firmware.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 16:01
Which is why we call it "beta."

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 16:11
Hi directions are here

http://www.aquariumcomputer.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1274

The important thing to know here is not if you can do updates using the flasher over USB to USB but instead if you can do an update using profiLux control software over USB to USB.

I can not and neither can my support cases, i guess I am trying to find a Beta tester that can do it this way so we can isolate the differences. At this point I can set up a test bed for support.

The issue is not with profiLux but the many different USB compatibility issues on PC's that then effect the connection to ProfiLux. I just need to create a support data base so all angles are covered, and two hour phone calls getting someone up and running are put into the history books.

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 16:23
I completely understand. My first reaction was to look for your phone number, but then decided I am a big boy. I can do this. I reseached and found the profilux 2 instructions and even went to an old computer and canabalized a "jumper." But that did not work. So I searched the forums and found the link that you gave and followed and it worked like a charm.

I was not able to install firmware p using profiLux control software over USB to USB. It stopped in the middle. I think it dropped the connection. I have had stability issues using the usb to usb all along and switched back to the tried and true rs232. I have an old cable that I bought years ago. It is a usb to rs232 from radioshack. I highly recommend.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 16:26
Hi directions are here

The issue is not with profiLux but the many different USB compatibility issues on PC's that then effect the connection to ProfiLux. I just need to create a support data base so all angles are covered, and two hour phone calls getting someone up and running are put into the history books.

I think that I would dispute this at this point. At least I would say that it is a compatibility issue with Windows XP and the profilux usb cord. The connection is still a rs232 connection but is using a usb conversion on both ends. Just my 2 cents.

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 16:27
What maybe some have not noticed and has not been published on the forum :confused: is that under the download section of the GHL website there are now TWO USB drivers, it is worth at this point looking at your USB cards chipset and matching the right driver to it. You will need to take direction from Matthias to know what one you have though.

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 16:30
This is worth exploring also

http://www.aquariumcomputer.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1937

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 17:42
I downloaded one driver and the computer would not recognize it. So I gave up for now.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 17:43
Hi directions are here

http://www.aquariumcomputer.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1274

The important thing to know here is not if you can do updates using the flasher over USB to USB but instead if you can do an update using profiLux control software over USB to USB.

I can not and neither can my support cases, i guess I am trying to find a Beta tester that can do it this way so we can isolate the differences. At this point I can set up a test bed for support.

The issue is not with profiLux but the many different USB compatibility issues on PC's that then effect the connection to ProfiLux. I just need to create a support data base so all angles are covered, and two hour phone calls getting someone up and running are put into the history books.

I am supressing an urge to ask where in the manual does it say to download the USB drivers. Ha!

Ken

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 18:22
I downloaded one driver and the computer would not recognize it. So I gave up for now.

Ken

Agh got ya :D

This brings me exactly to the point I try and get across when clients get ********** and blame Profilux. Here is the reason for my point

The drivers are not written or manipulated by GHL in anyway, they are provided by the USB chipset manufacturers. GHL is reliant 100% on their performance and what the PC/laptop they are being installed on.

You case is a perfect proof of this-

Installing a third party driver on a pc GHl have no control over with no profiLux attached in effect taking the ProfiLux 100% out of the loop, the issue of failed install happened with no GHL equipment being part of the failure.

So where is this GHL's fault? well no where really, it just shows the unreliability of USB and why GHL do try and favour RS232, but the issues here is RS232 is dog old technology which no modern PC has access to.

So whats the way forward?

My personal belief is we need to move towards Ethernet uploads and connectivity, we then reove the issue of drivers, but then move onto the instability of a persons personal network.

Will GHL ever win this battle?

Tough one, too many variables are involved, but for sure GHL is working solidly to make LAN very stable when the network it is connected to is stable.

There is a point to remember here also - GHL have far more advancements than any other controller, it is also not just a controller and another point is the continual updates to meet user demand mean you have to perform firmware updates more often so put at risk these errors when doing them. GHL could just not do any releases for 6 months, sit back develop all in house and then release but user demands do not dictate such luxuries.

With us all working together GHL connectivity is getting stronger and stronger, and lets not forget we are not aware of one single functionality bug, just cases of uploading firmware issues, and since the release of 5.0P drop outs also have reduced massively.

I am still happy to say wthout risk that GHL is still "bug free" yes it has firmware update issues due to various connectivity options, but operationally it is rock solid

Hope that makes sense.

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 18:32
The issues that you raise are no different from any number of other software providers. Compatiability is a constant problem and you are correct to say that it is a catch 22 because GHL gets the blame for it when it may very well be an issue dealing with others' drivers. But that is also the same problem that any number of other software providers have.

I hope that I am not sounding critical. I originally installed my firmware "p" with no problems and was nothing but happy. I was asked to install over usb to usb to see if it worked and I was happy to do it although I would liked to have known that I was testing a suspected issue.

I still have nothing but praise for the company (with the exception of the user manual). I would like to write a version just for english speakers that is more user friendly. If I had a free weekend, I would just do it and post it on line for anyone to review and see if it is more helpful, but I am not going to do that.

Finally, I love the controller, the dosing pumps are by far my favorite and I am a loyal customer. I will continue to buy GHL products and I will be happy to help in the future with "pushing buttons" to see what happens for the betterment of this hobby.

I will play around with the driver issue some more now that everyone else in the office is gone and see what happens.

Ken

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 18:34
Hi Ken

As always your input and findings are always very welcome this is why I was comfortable in asking you to help me with some tests ;)

May of knocked you offline for a bit, but helpful for me in the long run ;)

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 18:59
I guess I am glutten for punishment. I reinstalled the driver and it recognized the new driver. So now that I am an expert on using the flasher file, I decided that I would try it all again. But I have to say that I got the same result. Although this time, I was down for at most five minutes and not 2 hours.

Here is what happened. I connected to the controller using the software over the USB to USB connection. I selected the firmware "p" and started the update process just like I have many times before. I tried to monitor what happened. Again, the update stopped in the middle. I believe that it stopped where the controller shuts off all the outlets and the firmware continues. It was at this point that the update stopped.

I am wondering if maybe it is shutting down power to the USB outlet too. Just a thought.

So now that I am an expert on the flasher feature, I will confirm that the P3 has an issue installing and updating firmware "p" over the USB to USB using the profilux software.

Ken

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 19:03
I now make you an official expert ;) can you try it after following the instructions in this link, setting an RS485 delay

http://www.aquariumcomputer.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1937

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 19:16
Okay, I am now just into S/M. I did as you requested. I feel like I just set a record this time. I must have been down for only 2 minutes. But I got the same result. Error took place at the same point. The firmware update stopped at the same place as last time. When the controller shuts down the outlets this is when the firmware update stopped.

Ken

Ken Good
02.04.2010, 19:48
I am posting this to see if my new banner works.

Please disregard.

Ken

aqua_digital
02.04.2010, 20:07
Yep you at the same point I am at. I have run out of answers and suggestions. :o

ProfiLux control over USB is stable for programing and control just not firmware updates.

Matthias
04.04.2010, 11:18
Okay, I am now just into S/M. I did as you requested. I feel like I just set a record this time. I must have been down for only 2 minutes. But I got the same result. Error took place at the same point. The firmware update stopped at the same place as last time. When the controller shuts down the outlets this is when the firmware update stopped.

Ken

Hi Ken
many thanks your your hints - I think this was an important discovery

it seems the USB connection is disturbed when the sockets are deactivated during the update, maybe the switching off of the connected devices cause electromagnetic distrubances which are large enough to jam the USB connection.

Could you try an update over USB when the powerbar is disconnected?

Ken Good
05.04.2010, 00:57
Hi Ken
many thanks your your hints - I think this was an important discovery

it seems the USB connection is disturbed when the sockets are deactivated during the update, maybe the switching off of the connected devices cause electromagnetic distrubances which are large enough to jam the USB connection.

Could you try an update over USB when the powerbar is disconnected?

I did as you requested and I am happy to report that firmware "p" successfully uploaded using usb to usb with the digital powerbar disconnected. YEAH!

Ken

Matthias
05.04.2010, 08:51
Wow - that is what we expected - it seems the solution is found

I think this happened to you (and some other users having problems with updates over USB):
- during the update the powerbar switches off the sockets (after 30s this will happen due to security reasons)
- when switching off the connected devices a voltage peak in the main line occurs
- this results in disturbances in the USB line -> ProfiLuxControl can`t communicate with ProfiLux and that`s ist - update failed

Why does this only happen in some cases - why are other customers able to update successfully?
I believe there are 2 reasons:
1. this depends on the load which is switched off during the update - a chiller or MH ballast will cause much electrical noise, a simple solenoid won`t
2. a notebook can be disturbed easier than a desktop PC - because the PC is grounded and electromagnetic noise is forwarded to PE (protecting earth)

Bottomline:
Before updating the ProfiLux firmware with USB you should unplug the control lines between ProfiLux and the powerbars and wait until they switched to the "no connection state"!!!

steviek
07.04.2010, 13:55
I think that I would dispute this at this point. At least I would say that it is a compatibility issue with Windows XP and the profilux usb cord. The connection is still a rs232 connection but is using a usb conversion on both ends. Just my 2 cents.

i must agree

S

aqua_digital
07.04.2010, 14:08
I can happily confirm that since this update I have not had one single support case for connectivity in 2 days.

problem resolved :)

Ken Good
07.04.2010, 15:09
I can happily confirm that since this update I have not had one single support case for connectivity in 2 days.

problem resolved :)

This is great news! Congratulations. I hope you did not just jinx yourself.

Ken

almost
12.04.2010, 18:40
I reed this and just update my 3ex to 5p.

Plug & play, many thanks guys!