View Full Version : KH Director triton control modes.
Hi!
I'm having problems to understand the instructions, honestly... any friend I asked to help "translate English to English " well....they seem to be stuck as well.
Could you please help to understand how the Add - on mode would work in my case
I keep my system at 7.5dkh dosing all 4 Triton liquids at 46ml per day (2ml x23 times a day)
If my dkh falls by 0.1-0.2dkh I usually raise the Triton by 1ml a day 46+1ml=47ml in this case and if it goes up I lower it accordingly.
So I assigned the 5,6,7,8 pumps as Triton...It's set as slave to KH director and it's doser, Pump 4 will be used for something else if this works))))
I would like my KH director to adjust the dosages up and down the same way I was doing it.
what do I have to enter under fields
Volume change,
Limit for raise KH,
Limit for lower KH
When the doser adjusts will the 5,6,7,8 pumps dose in different times as set in Dosing overview? I have them dosing in 15 minutes intervals to avoid precipitation.????
Option 2 -
is to run No3 along side with my triton dosing on doser Nr4 to top up ONLY Alk if that falls below the nominal value..... leaving my Triton dosage as normal.
so my Sodium Bicarbonate mix is raising my tank by 0.1dkh = 50ml
How should I set this up if I want the Sodium bicarbonate ONLY dose the needed amount when it falls?
Do I understand it correctly that it needs to dose at least something a day in order to work with Director or can it be dosing only when the value needs to be changed?
Sorry for so many questions but Triton is very strong and last thing I want is to dump all that concentrated liquid in to my tank killing things.
Many thanks!
Hi there,
If you set pumps 5,6,7,8 to react based off the KH results, these additional or less dosages are adjusted throughout the whole day. As long as each dosage schedule is set to begin a few minutes apart, these will be no overlapping dose times for those pumps.
Since the VOLUME CHANGE option is based on the +/- change of 1dkH difference, for the KHD to add or reduce 1ml when +/- 0.1dkH, your volume change would have to be set to 10ml.
Example
If your desired KH is set to 7.5 dkH and the KHD test result comes back with 6.5dkH, you are 1dkH below the desired value. Because the volume change is set to 10ml, your current dose schedules for the assigned pumps is INCREASED by 10ml throughout the day. If the test result comes back 0.1dkH below the desired value, the existing dose schedule will be adjusted to dose 1ml MORE for the day.
With the LIMIT raise/lower KH, be sure to not set these too high so that adjustments are not so drastic if the KH result is more than 1dkH above or below the desired value (7.5dkH).
Personally, I would not set your NO3 liquid to be controlled by the KHD as there is no relation between KH and NO3.
If one day your KH test result is BELOW the desired value, your NO3 liquid will be dosed higher. Yet if the NO3 remains at an acceptable level, the KHD would ADD more NO3 when the tank may not necessarily need it.
Hi Vinny, thank you for getting back to me,
Sorry I meant Co3
so is this correct?
Volume change, 10ml
Limit for raise KH, (daily dose 46ml +10ml volume change) ???? = 56ml
Limit for lower KH 56ml
or is it-
Volume change, 10ml
Limit for raise KH, 10ml
Limit for lower KH 10ml
the problem is I have no clue how the raise/lower are calculated and do they need to be the same or different.
could you please give some more details on how these values are found?
I'm slightly surprised that the adjustments are triggered only if 1dkh fall is recorded and then 1dkh increase ...which makes a massive swing imo? Why not the 0.1 or 0.5 at best? I had never had such difference in my dkh. Is there a better way to control the parameters with automatic adjustments?
Volume change of +/-10ml IF dkH is 1dkH above or 1dkH below desired value.
Limit for raise KH 10ml: This is okay if you want to have the KHD add no more than 10ml if KH result is 1dkH HIGHER
Limit for lower KH 10ml: This is okay if you want the KHD to reduce your daily dosage by no more than 10ml
As mentioned in the manual and in the KHD settings page, the KHD will automatically calculate the necessary adjustment needed for anything below or above 1dkH. Take a look at the text below the chart, an explanation of these changes are there.
Now it's clear! Thank you!)))
You explained it much better and shorter than that manual)))))
Hi Vinny,
I had a look through few other threads. Could you please let me know if these settings are correct in that thread (link below, please look at his screen shot pictures)... I mean ...why does this user has 72ml in this high and also in lower fields, wouldn't that stop all dosing completely as it's the daily dose +add on dose.... if it was wrong...it would be mentioned right? but if it is right then what ever advice I was given creates even more confusion!!!!!! I must say this is been the most frustrating set up in my life..... for this money what we pay for these gadgets we shouldn't be begging for the logic behind extremely poor manual language! Two of my friends sold GHL in the first week of purchase because they could not understand any of this!
https://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?13500-Automatic-alkalinity-adjustment-is-not-working
My explanation earlier still stands.
In that example, the adjustment limits are 72ml for KH differences greater than 1dkH. If his daily dosages are greater than 72ml, then his settings will allow the KHD to deduct the dosage in his schedule by 72ml. If this dosage is less than 72ml, then no dose will occur for the day.
:confused:
One last question before I pack it up... unfortunately I can't understand what you mean in places ...sorry(((
Will this work?
Set value 7.5 dkh
A the moment normal daily dosage is 46ml of Triton
Volume change, 10ml
Limit for raise KH, 10ml
Limit for lower KH 10ml
Lets say reading is 7 dkh
so will it dose the usual 46ml a day....plus the 10ml extra (spreading out automatically within the day until the set value is reached to 7.5)
Making sure that Limit for raise KH, 10ml will not exceed more than by 10ml
now...
Lets say my test value come back 8dkh
with these settings will it stop dosing completely until DKH falls down or it will it dose 36ml (46ml minus the 10ml) until it's ready to dose the 46 again?
Please don't hit me)))
I found someone who could help me and explain this part.... after testing it seems to be working (would be nice to see the add on dosing adjustments .... in the dosing chart...as "add on done" ...)
Thank you for your assistance.
Glad it makes more sense now. :)
That's it! I'm done with this!!!
Stupid director measured 1.5dkh during the night (real measurement at 11 pm yesterday was 7.6) .... why this? ....well...because it wanted to, also there was NO alarm although I had it switched on high 7.7 - low 7.3!
There was no reason for that and more over with these settings
Volume change, 10ml
Limit for raise KH, 10ml
Limit for lower KH 10ml
it dumped in 78ml of my triton during the night, why?!!! If it had to do maximum of 10ml on top of my 46 daily!!!!
I'm very disappointed not just with this item but actually with the Extremely poor and unprofessional assistance.
I asked 1 straight question MANY times and got answers on equations I NEVER asked in a language which nobody around me in ENGLAND could understand!
Believe me ...this is what most GHL users think of costumer service!
We're sorry to hear you feel that way about our service.
Please post a screenshot of your exact KHD settings to get a better idea if this was a result of the KHD or incorrectly configured settings.
If you do a manual test, what is the KH result?
I'm not near the KH director to do a picture atm, sorry
Manual tests most of the week and last night where the same
last night at 11 pm hanna 7.8....so 0.2 - 0.3 (MORE than KH director)...KH director 7.6 I did this measurement manually before I went to bed
Todays test
2am (can't see the measurements as I could not see the recordings, running the director and dosing separately as SA and the rest as slaves to it)
8am Hanna 7.8 (KH director 1.5dkh)
8.30am Hanna 7.8 (KH director 8.1dkh)
This bothers me that this can be in such swing !!! Please notice the fact that Hanna was way higher than KH director all week, today Director is way ahead, I'm very precise with testing and keeping all equipment extremely clean
I know settings from my head so here it is.
Dosing Triton other method
all 4 channels dose equally 46ml a day 23 times = 2ml per dose
They are spread out dosing every 15 minutes (example pump 1 start 00:00, pump 2 start 00:15, pump 3 00:30.... etc etc)
All this was working fine for 1.5 years with no issues,
KH director settings,
Set value 7.5
Alarm 7.3-7.7
Pump 1 Water sample
Pump 2 Reagent
Pump 3.Waste
Pump 4 EMPTY
Pump 5 Triton 1
Pump 6 Triton 2
Pump 7 Triton 3A
Pump 8 Triton 3B
Volume change, 10ml
Limit for raise KH, 10ml
Limit for lower KH 10ml
Testing 4 times a day
2am
8am
2pm
8pm
What I've noticed that the calibration of the water sample tube needs to be done every few days now, as it changes anywhere from 34ml to 36.8ml per min. I use extremely accurate measurements, with 1ml syringe (and I've checked the value again just in case I've made a mistake...all was correct) Could you please tell me if this is normal and the tube is just expanding "curing" . I never experienced the issue with my dose tubes.
I've recalibrate the pumps many times over and over, they are all correct.
Calibrated probe as well...again all looks fine I compared with my other ph probe on profilux 4 so fine again!
I'm in my tears (I'm a woman so I'm allowed LOL) but this is just awfully all over the place.
Somehow I managed to do the other gadgets so I don't think I'm that incompetent ...however this one is one strange machine.(((
All I want is to go to my holiday soon, without worrying if it will go crazy again
New manual measurement
7pm Hanna 7.8dkh - KH director 7.6dkh (as you can see it's going down again and changing places)
It is common for Hanna checkers and other traditional test kits to show some difference between the KHD and those kits (Hobby grade test standards vs. Lab grade test standards).
There are many more variables to consider when testing with traditional test kits.
The result from a Hanna checker can be greatly skewed from fingerprints, dust, deviation in water sample volume, amount of power added, duration of mixing and sitting before testing, etc.
With that said, a 0.2dkH difference between the checker and KHD is acceptable.
If you dip the KHD probe in pH4 calibration fluid, does the pH reading in the KHD settings page show a pH of 4?
Please also test this with pH7 fluid.
What is the outcome?
FYI
The pH probe from the P4 and probe from the KHD are NOT the same. The pH probe for the KHD is a modified pH probe made specifically for this purpose.
I don't see how Hanna and my finger tips have anything to do with a massive swing from 1.5dkh to 8.1dkh on a director within minutes between testing!
I trust my hanna and that result is consistent when Directors results are all over the place in this example.
I've calibrated many times the probe, and the pumps as well, just like I do on my P4 without any incidents or issues.
Ph probe is fine...I did test exactly like you said the same day it happened.
PS. you never answered about the tube you supply with the item, why is it changing calibration all the time? Just in case you doubt ...we are very capable to measure correct volume to the drop. Half of the family are doctors.
I was referring to testing in general, not the sudden decrease reading from the KHD.
The 1.5dkH reading could have been caused by an air bubble that was once trapped along the reagent line (externally or internally) or feed line. If you do consecutive tests and all their readings are close to each other, that further suggests the deviation was due to a trapped air bubble now moving.
Looks like I missed the water sample calibration comment. If readings are slightly different each time, you can do the calibration a few times and take the average result rather than the end-result of a single calibration.
If you want to get the normal KHD reading closer to your Hanna checker, you can alter the end-result in the KHD settings page.
Thank you for your reply, I will try your suggestions. I'm getting somewhere but not there yet so I can leave the system)))
I was thinking about a bubble causing the low reading or KZ Coral snow (however from Coral snow to KH testing was about 8hrs away and I run heavy mechanical filter but it seems very possible)
Could you please comment on few things below so I can sort out the issues.
1. About Add-on dosing
Dosing Triton 46ml a day 23 times 2ml per dose
DKH set value 7.5
Volume change: 2ml (does this mean that if dkh is(7.3) less it's less than set value (7.5) .... will it add to my normal dosing 2ml a day...=48ml, or does this +2ml to each dose until it has reached the set value and until a new DKH test is performed?)
Limit for raise KH: 2ml (does this mean that it will dose max 2ml a day on top of my 46ml if the reading is lover than set value?)
Limit for lower KH: 2ml(same as above but minus 2 a day from my normal daily dosing?)
The reason why I ask is that my last 10ml settings seemed to add a lot when the reading was less than set value at each dosing.
2. Would you please help me to find a problem with the connection to P4
At the moment I have
P4 + two power bars (separate)
SA doser, KH director and another doser which is slave connected as PUB. (separate prom P4)
I would like to join them and use full potential of charts and recordings.
When ever I connect all devices to P4 as PUB devices and tick Enable KH director an amber light is flashing.
So I tested each device by removing one by one and it only flashes when KH director is present.
What am I missing here?
I checked all pumps and they seemed fine?
Plus there is no Amber light when the SA doser, KH director and another doser which is slave connected as PUB is connected without P4.
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