Upgraded FW (6.2), Having Issues Calibrating pH Probes

[regala]

Hoping someone could provide some insight.

I upgraded my Profilux 3EX to 6.2 FW. I then had to recalibrate my pH probes. My first pH is for the main tank, using 7 pH to 9pH calibration. The second is for inside of my GEO Calcium Reactor, using 4 pH to 7 pH calibration.

Initially, I had issues configuring either one and the values stuck at 10.5 pH. After multiple attempts, I was able to configure the first probe and its reading was correct. Then, I configured the second probe and its reading was correct. However, it seems that configuring the second probe affected the readings for the first probe as it declined all the way to 3 pH and stuck there. So I decided to reboot the Profilux and now both probes are reading 3 pH.

Both probes are fairly new.

7907



Any insight would be greatly appreciated as its been a frustrating day dealing with this.

Regards,

Joseph

[Vinny]

Hi Joseph,

If you disconnect one of the probes, does the readings of the other probe change?

[regala]

Unfortunately, no... here are the steps I did afterwards:

- disabed the second pH probe
- disconnected the second pH probe
- rebooted the Profilux

The first pH probe still reporting 3 pH, so I disabled/enabled it again... still no difference.

I guess at this point, I need to ask... is there a specific order of steps that I need to follow in order to first, calibrate the first pH probe, then calibrate the second pH probe? I looked for a manual regarding the expansion card for the second pH probe but couldn't find one. Also, are there any recommended values that I should specify in the settings, as shown in the screenshot I included?

[Matthias]

Hi

the last ProfiLux firmware updates didn't deal in any way with the sensors, we had no other complaints, so I must rule out that there is any relation to the firmware update, I guess a coincidence.

No, there is no special order to do a calibration and the sensors dont affect each other, all sensor control ciruits are strictly separated.
So it does not matter when you calibrate which one.

In the screenshots I see very suspicious calibration values, the ADC1 and ADC2 of each probe have nearly the same value and the value are all too low.
With these wrong calibration values ProfiLux is not able to calculate the correct pH value, that's why you see nonsense values like "3.00"

This shows either:
- wrong calibration process
- defective probe - probes have a lifetime of 6 ... 24 months, depending on the environment, can be shorter if the probes dried out
- defective pH-port in the ProfiLux - but I doubt that, this is very rare, and I can't imagine that 2 ports are dead at the same time

[regala]

When calibrating the pH probes, I was suspicious that there was an issue. I've calibrated them before and usually it would take a while to count down from 899s while configuring... however, the Profilux now beeps after about a minute.

Anyways, I thought that perhaps an issue occurred when I reloaded back my settings that I saved before upgrading... previously, it was from version 6.14. Anyways, I did a factory reset on the settings and reconfigured everything manually but the same issue occurs. Now, I've decided to downgrade to 6.19 and try to configure... hopefully I have better luck. I'll let you know after my attempt. In the interim, if you have any other suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

[leponex]

When calibrating the pH probes, I was suspicious that there was an issue. I've calibrated them before and usually it would take a while to count down from 899s while configuring... however, the Profilux now beeps after about a minute.

Anyways, I thought that perhaps an issue occurred when I reloaded back my settings that I saved before upgrading... previously, it was from version 6.14. Anyways, I did a factory reset on the settings and reconfigured everything manually but the same issue occurs. Now, I've decided to downgrade to 6.19 and try to configure... hopefully I have better luck. I'll let you know after my attempt. In the interim, if you have any other suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

Hello,
I've the same problem with My ph probe since firmware update... I changed with a new probe, same problem.

[myprofilux]

Just to confirm I have had the EXACT same thing see my post (http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?10676-Calibration-Sensors-gone-wild-PLEASE-HELP&p=66214#post66214) I am also getting 0.00ms on my conductivity probes which have been working for ages.

[myprofilux]

Hi

the last ProfiLux firmware updates didn't deal in any way with the sensors, we had no other complaints, so I must rule out that there is any relation to the firmware update, I guess a coincidence.

No, there is no special order to do a calibration and the sensors dont affect each other, all sensor control ciruits are strictly separated.
So it does not matter when you calibrate which one.

In the screenshots I see very suspicious calibration values, the ADC1 and ADC2 of each probe have nearly the same value and the value are all too low.
With these wrong calibration values ProfiLux is not able to calculate the correct pH value, that's why you see nonsense values like "3.00"

This shows either:
- wrong calibration process
- defective probe - probes have a lifetime of 6 ... 24 months, depending on the environment, can be shorter if the probes dried out
- defective pH-port in the ProfiLux - but I doubt that, this is very rare, and I can't imagine that 2 ports are dead at the same time

@Matthias - I am not sure that
the last ProfiLux firmware updates didn't deal in any way with the sensors, we had no other complaints, so I must rule out that there is any relation to the firmware update, I guess a coincidence is correct.

Let me explain:

1. I am experiencing the exact same thing, including some unexplained results on my conductivity probes (which incidentally worked perfectly on / or prior to 6.2 update.....) - See the post here (http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?10676-Calibration-Sensors-gone-wild-PLEASE-HELP)
2. You now have three users with the exact same issue: re-calibration of working PH probes that get the same effect - Probes reading 3ph... it is a huge coincidence that after the firmware upgrade to the same firmware - 6.2 - three people around the world that re-calibrated their probes and get the same result - 3.00ph. I have used a new probe and same result. You have me, @regala and @leponex with the same results. - Unfortunately I went and re-calibrated my conductivity probes and have similar issues (see below)

3. To rule OUT PH port on profilux I used my SPARE PH port (in my post (http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?10676-Calibration-Sensors-gone-wild-PLEASE-HELP) you will see that I have three PH ports one of which is not used) to calibrate the current PH probe and a new PH probe. Same result - 3,00ph.

In my case I re-calibrated my conductivity probes as well and I get the same "weird behavior" when calibrating (take over 10 minutes to calibrate) and the end result is both probes are now sitting at 0.00ms..... regardless if I change ports, take the probe out the water it never changes it sits at 0.00ms.
The calibration process I followed was as per you manual. Using the calibration fluids from Profilux. I have a independant PH meter which I use to test my proflux readings. It runs on its on system and I can for sure say my tank is at 8.4PH, I can also confirm the calibration fluids are correct 4 and 7 as I measured them with the independent PH probe.

To help with the investigation I have used independent testers to verify that the calibration fluids are correct: PH is 4 an 7 and conductivity at 25 degrees is sitting at 50ms. So we can rule out false or expired calibration fluids.
Which then turns to probes, I have tested new probes on different ports - this was to rule out both the Probe being faulty and the Port being faulty - Same result - incorrect readings.
I then tested the actual tank water to see if the probe was reading correctly - 3.0ph and 0.0ms - even though a simple view of my beautiful SPS and Tanks mates would of already given me an answer I did it scientifically and my readings using the independent readings was PH 8.4 and 51ms.

Which in fact once again turns to the last change to the system - firmware 6.2.....
I am not sure what has happened but something is definitely not right - everything was working perfectly before the change. I can't see how all the probes would become faulty all at the same time.

Looking forward to your response as currently my profilux system is pretty useless.

[myprofilux]

@Matthias or any GHL help

Any update on this>

[king]

same problem here i tied to calibrate my conductivity salinity and ph and am getting 10.5 on the ghl controller

and in my expansion box am getting 0 for the mms and ph stuck at 10.5

i thought my probes were the problem but obviously not

any help please
thanks


@Matthias or any GHL help

Any update on this>

[myprofilux]

same problem here i tied to calibrate my conductivity salinity and ph and am getting 10.5 on the ghl controller

and in my expansion box am getting 0 for the mms and ph stuck at 10.5

i thought my probes were the problem but obviously not

any help please
thanks

Do we still have no answer, guidance for this. Do we downgrade to previous firmware that was working are you releasing a fix for this? Are you just going to ignore us till you find a fix?

[Matthias]

as explained earlier absolutely nothing had been changed in regards to sensors or calibration of them in the last firmware versions

so far we were not able to reproduce this misbehaviour in our test controllers

but we examine again and come back to this ASAP

this is a very interesting point:

Do we downgrade to previous firmware that was working
if you could do so and report if the problem disappears (or not) this would help us very much in identifying the issue

[MatthiasF]

We tested the whole calibration process of the sensors on a ProfiLux3 with firmware 6.19 and after upgrading the firmware to the latest version. It works, as it should.

Normally, the calibration process should not exceed five minutes (even with a tolerance level of one; you could use a higher tolerance and see, if it helps). There is most likely a sensor probe failure in your installation.
Double check the probes and the attached wires.

[gnisten]

Any update on this?
A friend got hes Profilux 3,1N, and i was asked to help him with the setup, i firstly upgraded the P3, powerbar 5,1, and hes touch, to the latest firmware (P3 direcly from 6,12 to 6,22). After initial setup of powerbars, touch, and temp and ph probe, etc. We startede to calibrate the brand new ph probe. After calibration, the ph was 3,0 as seen in the profilux control sw, but *** in the display of P3, and an alarm is showing up on ph1, even when the alarm is disabled on the ph1 sensor. We tried to calibrate several times, but with poor luck. Then we tried a used probe of mine, which i brought with me from home, and the result was the same. After 5 hours i gave up, and went home. I have used Profilux for nearly the first version, and think of myself that im a very expirienced user, and my ownn setup is pretty advanced.
I havent tried to downgrade from 6,22 to lower ver, but this will be the next option, when i visit my frien within the next couple of days.
Regarding this matter im am also pretty sure that something is wrong with the 6,22 firmware, or something goes wrong under the upgrade process, especcially when the problem consist when attaching the probe of my own, which i know is working 100%

[myprofilux]

We tested the whole calibration process of the sensors on a ProfiLux3 with firmware 6.19 and after upgrading the firmware to the latest version. It works, as it should.

Normally, the calibration process should not exceed five minutes (even with a tolerance level of one; you could use a higher tolerance and see, if it helps). There is most likely a sensor probe failure in your installation.
Double check the probes and the attached wires.

To be honest the only option I have is to downgrade the firmware right now. I understand you saying that your test systems do not show this but if you look at the forum I can count four people (with someone as recent as yesterday posting the same issue -> here (http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?t=10676&goto=newpost)

Basically what you saying is all 6 of my probes are faulty if not the probes then both my Profilux 3 and my expansion box are faulty even though they worked perfectly before the firmware upgrade. Nothing changed accept the firmware upgrade.

Never the less, I will downgrade the software and test it - I would however strongly suggest that further deeper investigations take place having four people with the same issue (exactly the same) after the same change (firmware upgrade to 6.2) and those systems worked before does not really point to faulty systems.

[myprofilux]

Yeah basically GHL is telling us that miraculously after 6.2 all of our systems or probes are faulty. They tested and it has nothing to do with the firmware upgrade......... :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Lasse]

A question – are you using expansion boxes?

I have run into this type of problems and they are for me caused by the fact that the sensor index suddenly changes then I add or calibrate a new expansion box.

But this type of problems I have before the 6.20 upgrade.

You can find the sensor index here.

7973

Now I use the 6.22 firmware and in the coming two weeks I will upgrade my system with two more expansion boxes and I will have totally 10 pH probes and 6 redox probes (5 expansion boxes) added to the system.

I´ll report if there will be trouble with this expansion of my network. I´m sure - there is some problem with the PAB system and sensor index but to solve this we all have to help the GHL team with our own investigations .

I solved my problems through reset the PAB system - install all things again and then recalibrate when the whole network was mounted. But there was funny change of the sensor index when I installed the last expansion box. The order is EXB 1, EXB 2, EXB 3. I started with EXB 1 and it get the lowest sensor index (after the computers settings and two exp cards (It start with index 9) After adding EXB 2 it looks fine. EXB 1 ended with sensor index 13 and EXB 2 has its index between 14 and 17. After adding EXB 3 – the normal way would be that the index continue from 18 to 21.

But instead it took the sensor index 9-12, EXB 1 got 13-17 and EXB 3 19-21. The whole system is built on index, calibration also. This means that index 9 calibration no longer was valid for EXB 1 first pH probe and I got pH probes calibrated as temperature probes – it was a mess.

Another thing which can be a problem is the electrical potential between different tanks (or tank and a lime reactor) This problem shows up every time you have electrical isolated measure points. Grounding of aquariums and reactors should solve this problem

There is also other strange things - reported in this thread. http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/showthread.php?10167-PH-trubble. I solve that problem through not use ILL Channel 1 !

Sincerely Lasse

[myprofilux]

Lasse - Finally someone that follows the logic ...

Yes I am using ONE Expansion box. I noticed my indexes are a bit screwed simply because my very first PH probe is on index 1 the new slot (card I bought and added) inherited index 0....
The Expansion box I bought second hand and did not "reset it" so don't know if it inherited the old systems indexes as well?

How do I hard reset to test your theory (hard reset everything ex box normal profilux etc)

I wish GHL would actually watch and listen to these posts....

Just as a fact I know that all 6 or so of my senors did not over night become faulty as suggested by:

There is most likely a sensor probe failure in your installation.
Double check the probes and the attached wires.

[GHL Support]

This issue went in the 2nd level support now.

I've checked the calibration at firmware V6.21 and the actual V6.22 and the result is: there isn't a problem with the calibration.

But Lasse gave an important hint. I'll check this.

Background:
If the ressources are changed, the PAB devices need to be reassigned again ... and the saved sensor param file would not match anymore, so the sensor settings need to be made from scratch.
This is also the case, if you add a new card (sensor card for example) in the ExpansionBox or any change on the ExpansionBox sensor settings (Onborad-Sensor enable/disable, Cond F<->S, pH <-> Redox).

You could try this to solve the calibration problem:
Save all your settings (ProfiLux & sensors)
Remove all PAB devices with "PAB reset".
Assign all your PAB devices.
Reload the ProfiLux settings (not the sensor settings)
Unfortunately all sensor settings need to be made from scratch again.
Double check the other settings of your system (especially the controlling functions)

[GHL Support]

I've checked the PAB ressources in the ProfiLux firmware and there were no changes.
So the ProfiLux firmware update has nothing to do with this problem, neither the sensor calibration.

So, I think following was the reason:
If the ressources are changed, the PAB devices need to be reassigned again ... and the saved sensor param file would not match anymore, so the sensor settings need to be made from scratch.
This is also the case, if you add a new card (sensor card for example) in the ExpansionBox or any change on the ExpansionBox sensor settings (Onborad-Sensor enable/disable, Cond F<->S, pH <-> Redox).

[myprofilux]

Im trying to backup (Transmit all settings from Profilux to file) and I get " Cannot open parameter definition file" ParaList_V620_Profilux3.def

Any ideas

[myprofilux]

I will try and reset the PAB Reset and start from scratch, do I need to do a factory reset of the Profilux 3 main unit as well?

[Lasse]

Download the latest Control Center from the downloading section. They change the version last Saturday in order to fix that type of issues. You must download it again - it’s not the same as the one that was up before Saturday!

Disconnect all PAB connections – reset the PAB. Disconnect your Expansion box from the grid and wait 30 seconds – reconnect again (Norwegian reset :) ).

Connect all PAB things and assign them to your system. Try to identify which probe has which index. Its not sure that pH 1 is the computers probe. I think that best way to identify the index is the temperature probes and use cold water to one of them in order to identify.

I do not think that you have to use default settings but if it not works any other way – test it Especially if your ADC values looks like it does in your screen shoots

When you have identified the first pH probe – calibrate it. I personally always use pH 7 as first calibration point and 4 or 9 (10) as second. In order to do that I have to change first calibration point (4 as default) to seven and the second calibration point from default 7 to 4 or 9 (10). When I have done this I press ok and put the electrode in pH 7 solution. Look at the ADC value in the computer window – it should slowly change to a value around 500. Because I always use 9 or 10 as a second calibration point – I put the probe in that solution when the computer says so and now should the ADC change down to around 300. If it not does that something its wrong. The first thing is to check that you have the right calibration solutions,

After this calibrate your other probes

Hopefully this will help you

Sincerely Lasse

[Lasse]

I've checked the PAB ressources in the ProfiLux firmware and there were no changes.
So the ProfiLux firmware update has nothing to do with this problem, neither the sensor calibration.

So, I think following was the reason:
If the ressources are changed, the PAB devices need to be reassigned again ... and the saved sensor param file would not match anymore, so the sensor settings need to be made from scratch.
This is also the case, if you add a new card (sensor card for example) in the ExpansionBox or any change on the ExpansionBox sensor settings (Onborad-Sensor enable/disable, Cond F<->S, pH <-> Redox).

Hint - I do not know this is important but my latest problems start when I ad a new EXB. With earlier firmware (before 6.14) -I have use 8 pH probes in two exb. In this case it was also funny with the indexes when I ad 8 virtuelle probes - they change everythings according to index and I had to recalibrate 8 electrodes again. In my opion - the way PAB handling indexes .... Is it not possible to make the index handling to be manual so you can change them by yourself?

Sincerely Lasse

[myprofilux]

Hint - I do not know this is important but my latest problems start when I ad a new EXB. With earlier firmware (before 6.14) -I have use 8 pH probes in two exb. In this case it was also funny with the indexes when I ad 8 virtuelle probes - they change everythings according to index and I had to recalibrate 8 electrodes again. In my opion - the way PAB handling indexes .... Is it not possible to make the index handling to be manual so you can change them by yourself?

Sincerely Lasse

Does a full factory restore not fix all the indexes on the sensors?

I am thinking of doing full factory reset and starting from scratch with my install?

[GHL Support]

Yes, if you add a new ExpansionBox the ressource indexes could change. Then you have to set up the system from scratch.
No, you can't change the ressource index manually.

No, a factory reset is not enough, if you change things at the PAB

[Lasse]

@ Frank A question about calibration.

Default for profilux is that pH 4 is the first calibration point and pH 7 the second. I am learned (since ages ago) to always start with pH 7 (the theoretical 0 mV) and after that confirm the slope with pH 4 or pH 9. Is there a reason why profilux by deafault have pH 7 as the second calibration point?

Sincerely Lasse

[keneil01]

Norwegian reset... Haha... ;-)
On / off button we call "svenskeknappen"